Lofting up

[Steven79]

I currently have a vrs covert tour driver. After seeing all the hype around TaylorMade's loft up campaign I was wondering if the same principles applied to the tour driver. I only ask this as all the reviews of my driver say that it is a low spin and has a weight positioned further forward than the performance vrs driver. Any thoughts?

[dbrock504]

I honestly don't understand all this "loft up" nonsense. I have a very sweeping swing, and I had a 10.5* PING G10 driver that was just too high. You could see the ball stall out and just fall. I got fit for a Callaway X Hot driver with 9.5* Stiff flex. The ball goes another 40 yds due its proper piercing ball flight. I am much more happy going DOWN in loft.

[Dave2512]

When I had some work done on my Cobra Amp Cell the clubmaker took one look at it and said it was probably a good 2-3 degrees more lofted than what any setting said it was. Doubting him I asked him to prove it and sure enough he was right. Was dang near a 3w with a big head.

[jamo]

I currently have a vrs covert tour driver. After seeing all the hype around TaylorMade's loft up campaign I was wondering if the same principles applied to the tour driver. I only ask this as all the reviews of my driver say that it is a low spin and has a weight positioned further forward than the performance vrs driver. Any thoughts?

I can't get my VR_S Covert Tour in the air at all with it set at less than 10.5˚, so it probably wouldn't hurt to bump it up. That's a relatively low-spin, low-launching driver.

[saevel25]

I honestly don't understand all this "loft up" nonsense. I have a very sweeping swing, and I had a 10.5* PING G10 driver that was just too high. You could see the ball stall out and just fall. I got fit for a Callaway X Hot driver with 9.5* Stiff flex. The ball goes another 40 yds due its proper piercing ball flight. I am much more happy going DOWN in loft.

That's because the G10 and the Callaway X hot Driver are two different drivers. Loft up makes sense if you realize that the weighting in the drivers have changed dramatically the past 4 years.

[Nemicu]

Mark Crossfield recently did a video which explains this quite nicely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIFT_WgP1x8&list;=UUZelGnfKLXic4gDP63dIRxw

[saevel25]

Mark Crossfield recently did a video which explains this quite nicely

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIFT_WgP1x8&list;=UUZelGnfKLXic4gDP63dIRxw

Yea, I like how he puts it. A different spin profile. I will say the SLDR can be a bit less forgiving, but it isn't bad. I mean I can slice the hell out of my old Ping G10 driver, that thing was basically MOI to the nth degree. So, all the MOI in the world wont save the ball from a bad swing. It helps, but end of the day, swing trumps tech.

[dbrock504]

That's because the G10 and the Callaway X hot Driver are two different drivers. Loft up makes sense if you realize that the weighting in the drivers have changed dramatically the past 4 years.

Although that might be true, I don't know if all that really makes a difference. When I was getting fit, a 10.5* Callaway X Hot was at a 16-17* launch angle. Going to a 9.5* put me at a more favorable 13.5-15* launch angle. I feel like all this techy tech stuff is a bunch of selling bs. Some guy shot just over par with me last week using a 15 year old set of Titleist clubs. I'm really not sold on all this high tech new loft up stuff. Plus, that logic saves me $400 every 6 months when something "new and improved" comes out! hahaha

[saevel25]

Not really, when you consider if you can achieve 16-17 degrees of launch with sub 2000 rpm spin rate you will gain distance + roll. I

Now as for what a person does with their total golf game, that is a different story. I am just talking pure advantage due to tech advancement.

Look at it this way. I went from 11-12 degrees of launch with 3000-3200 rpm to about 14.5 to 15.5 degrees of launch with 1900-2200 rpm of spin. I gained 15 yards of carry. I also gained more roll out because I have less spin, and less steeper descent angle. I also don't have to worry about wind as much anymore. Also my misses are better because if I thin one, the weight is forward and low, the ball still comes out as a piercing trajectory and it rolls a FRICKEN LONG WAY. I've thinned shots that go as far and sometimes farther than my old 910 Titleist driver.

For me, loft up, lower spin, more distance, more distance on miss shots. Its a win win for me all around.

[MS256]

Yea, I like how he puts it. A different spin profile. I will say the SLDR can be a bit less forgiving, but it isn't bad. I mean I can slice the hell out of my old Ping G10 driver, that thing was basically MOI to the nth degree. So, all the MOI in the world wont save the ball from a bad swing. It helps, but end of the day, swing trumps tech.

Maybe the G10 had too high an MOI from shaft to toe and that's why you left the clubface open? http://golf.about.com/od/faqs/f/moi.htm "The second example refers to the MOI of the clubhead about the shaft axis. Little is spoken about this MOI in equipment marketing, but it is an important head design factor that can affect the accuracy of the shot, not the distance. The bigger the head or the more weight that is placed far out on the toe of the clubhead, the higher the MOI of the head will be about the shaft's axis. The smaller the head or the more weight that is positioned in the heel area of the head, the lower the MOI of the head will be about the shaft's axis. The higher the clubhead MOI around the shaft, the more tendency there is for a golfer to leave the face open at impact. The lower the clubhead MOI around the shaft, the more tendency there is for a golfer to rotate the face more closed at impact."

[saevel25]

Not really, since my slice was a pull cut. It wasn't the club. I sliced the Titleist 975D driver, G10 driver, Titleist 910 driver, and I have sliced my Taylormade driver. No Driver is un-slicable.

[dbrock504]

That really is interesting because I have been just the opposite. I find that I have a better trajectory and consequently more distance with a 14-15* launch angle and a 2400 spin. When I was with the 10.5* I was at 16-17* with 1900 spin was just ballooning out and had no roll out. I went from avg 265 to 278 avg. That's all on a screen. I went and played Friday and it was +275 5/11 holes. I really enjoyed moving down in loft. Again, more loft means higher ball flight, correct? According to physics, optimal distance will be achieved at a 45* launch angle (0* being on the ground and 90* being directly up) So why would anyone want a super high ball flight? I feel as if I might be misunderstanding this "loft up" gig.

[saevel25]

That really is interesting because I have been just the opposite. I find that I have a better trajectory and consequently more distance with a 14-15* launch angle and a 2400 spin. When I was with the 10.5* I was at 16-17* with 1900 spin was just ballooning out and had no roll out. I went from avg 265 to 278 avg. That's all on a screen. I went and played Friday and it was +275 5/11 holes. I really enjoyed moving down in loft. Again, more loft means higher ball flight, correct? According to physics, optimal distance will be achieved at a 45* launch angle (0* being on the ground and 90* being directly up) So why would anyone want a super high ball flight? I feel as if I might be misunderstanding this "loft up" gig.

1900 rpm should not be ballooning. I would challenge that number really if you are seeing a ball balloon. Ballooning only happens when you hit a high spin shot, and the backspin produces a high rate of ascending into the air.

Height of the ball is dictated by launch angle + spin + ball speed. Increase any of those and you increase height of the ball. Now their significance is not equal, but lowering spin will lower ball flight.

I went to flightscope's website, they have a nice trajectory optimizer you can mess around with.

Your 14.5 degrees, with 2400 rpm, lets assume 160 mph ball speed (pretty fast). That would be 275.2 carry, with a max height of 101 feet in the air.

Your 16.5 degrees, with 1900 rpm, same 160 mph ball speed, that would be 278.8 carry, max height of 104.2.

So yes in your example, the ball would travel higher, but its only 3 feet , I doubt you could tell the difference. What you are seeing is just what you are not expecting to see. After years of watching countless drives start lower and go high, seeing a ball start high and shallow out, looks like it goes much higher when it doesn't really go much higher at all. Also, the lower RPM will be effected less by the wind as well.

So Higher Loft, and low spin carries farther, rolls out farther, doesn't travel significantly higher than other drives, and is a better playable ball flight for windy conditions.

[dbrock504]

Great info. Thanks

[Jeremie Boop]

Not really, when you consider if you can achieve 16-17 degrees of launch with sub 2000 rpm spin rate you will gain distance + roll. I

Now as for what a person does with their total golf game, that is a different story. I am just talking pure advantage due to tech advancement.

Look at it this way. I went from 11-12 degrees of launch with 3000-3200 rpm to about 14.5 to 15.5 degrees of launch with 1900-2200 rpm of spin. I gained 15 yards of carry. I also gained more roll out because I have less spin, and less steeper descent angle. I also don't have to worry about wind as much anymore. Also my misses are better because if I thin one, the weight is forward and low, the ball still comes out as a piercing trajectory and it rolls a FRICKEN LONG WAY. I've thinned shots that go as far and sometimes farther than my old 910 Titleist driver.

For me, loft up, lower spin, more distance, more distance on miss shots. Its a win win for me all around.

If you had ever played with this guy you'd know he had ridiculous high ball flight with his driver even with low loft and if he's seen an improvement from lofting up that says a lot to me. Now, I'm not going to be buying a new driver this year myself, but it does give me information for the next time I am in the market.

[Jazzfan]

I have a covert 2.0, set at 11.5. It is so much longer then my i20 at 9.5. And the roll out i get is a sweet added bonus. The only ballooning issue was when I had to hit into 30 mph winds and any ball would do that in that kind of wind!!