Picking up a provisional before original is found

[rdsandy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No it isn't.  The provisional ball is still just provisional until the original ball is lost, found out of bounds, or the provisional ball is played from a point at or closer to the hole than where the original ball is thought to lie.

If the original ball had not been found in bounds after the player picked up the provisional, he would have simply been required to replace the provisional ball and take one more penalty stroke for moving it in breach of Rule 18.  Since the original ball was found, he was correct to play on with that ball.

Thanks for the explanation. I'm not all that surprised that I learned the wrong information. I need to really study the rulebook objectively, without making assumptions that I know certain rules already.

Or you can make an assertion as to what you think/thought a ruling was, if it's wrong you will be informed. This is the easier way to learn the rules.

[David in FL]

Or you can make an assertion as to what you think/thought a ruling was, if it's wrong you will be informed. This is the easier way to learn the rules.

Only on a forum like this where there are some very knowledgeable, trained rules experts and an unusually high percentage of members that actually care about playing the game correctly. On the course, you're more likely to find a level of ignorance only matched by indifference to the correct rules of the game. Failing to educate yourself almost guarantees that you will violate any number of rules, even in the most straight forward round. Not a problem playing casually with your buddies, but in any kind of competitive environment, it's going to end badly for you.

[billchao]

Or you can make an assertion as to what you think/thought a ruling was, if it's wrong you will be informed. This is the easier way to learn the rules.

I agree with what @David in FL said, so I'll just add one thing: there are a lot of situations that are already explained and outlines in the rules of golf that one can learn simply through a little reading and research. It would be irresponsible (and lazy) of me to just ask every question I could possibly have to the members here when I can just do a little leg work myself.

[Golfingdad]

Though I will say this, the guy who picked up his provisional ball because he hit it into the weeds is playing with fire. Because, if he didn't find his first ball then the provisional ball would be in play. This means that he picked up a ball in play. Which would be a penalty and he would have to go back to the tall grass and return his ball and play it from there. At least I believe so.

It was match play, though, so he likely was not playing with fire, but just saying to himself "well, the only way I'm going to win this hole is if I find the original.  No need to even bother continuing with this provisional, because if I have to play it out, I'm just conceding the hole."

So it kinda sounds like he may have just been trying to save time.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25

Though I will say this, the guy who picked up his provisional ball because he hit it into the weeds is playing with fire. Because, if he didn't find his first ball then the provisional ball would be in play. This means that he picked up a ball in play. Which would be a penalty and he would have to go back to the tall grass and return his ball and play it from there. At least I believe so.

It was match play, though, so he likely was not playing with fire, but just saying to himself "well, the only way I'm going to win this hole is if I find the original.  No need to even bother continuing with this provisional, because if I have to play it out, I'm just conceding the hole."

So it kinda sounds like he may have just been trying to save time.

Yeah.  He'd have been hitting his 5th out of the rough while his opponent is hitting his second.  That pretty much kills any chance he had at even halving the hole.

[rdsandy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdsandy

Or you can make an assertion as to what you think/thought a ruling was, if it's wrong you will be informed. This is the easier way to learn the rules.

I agree with what @David in FL said, so I'll just add one thing: there are a lot of situations that are already explained and outlines in the rules of golf that one can learn simply through a little reading and research. It would be irresponsible (and lazy) of me to just ask every question I could possibly have to the members here when I can just do a little leg work myself.

But then only you would benefit. When it is posted on a public forum, many eyes are viewing the subject matter. Those in the know will insure the correct outcome, those not will have learned something.

[billchao]

But then only you would benefit. When it is posted on a public forum, many eyes are viewing the subject matter. Those in the know will insure the correct outcome, those not will have learned something.

Honestly, everybody should be responsible enough to learn the rules on their own... If they still have questions and issues, then yea, post away. I'm talking about basic rules, well defined and explicitly stated, as in this case with the provisional ball rule that I should have been more responsible in understanding properly. I have, in the past, misused and misinformed others of the rule, and that's on me. When I'm on the course and someone asks me for a rules clarification and I give them the wrong information, where are the expert eyes to correct my wrongdoing?

[Dormie1360]

Honestly, everybody should be responsible enough to learn the rules on their own... If they still have questions and issues, then yea, post away.

I'm talking about basic rules, well defined and explicitly stated, as in this case with the provisional ball rule that I should have been more responsible in understanding properly. I have, in the past, misused and misinformed others of the rule, and that's on me.

When I'm on the course and someone asks me for a rules clarification and I give them the wrong information, where are the expert eyes to correct my wrongdoing?

I think you have a great attitude as far as trying to know the rules.  Don't feel too bad about not understanding all the issues with a provisional, however.  If I poled 10 golfers at random, I'd bet 8 wouldn't know anything about playing a provisional ball up to the point where the original was likely to be.

[billchao]

I think you have a great attitude as far as trying to know the rules.  Don't feel too bad about not understanding all the issues with a provisional, however.  If I poled 10 golfers at random, I'd bet 8 wouldn't know anything about playing a provisional ball up to the point where the original was likely to be.

Thanks. I don't feel bad, just a little embarrassed. Everybody can use a little embarrassment once in a while.

[luu5]

My understanding is that the idea of a provisional is to save time and should be struck up to the point of where the ball may be found? Does the fact that the provisional was found and picked up effect this? Given that clearly at this point the idea of the provisional is no longer to save time? I would have thought that if the provisional is played a second time it should be continued to be played until the point in which it would be reasonable to look for the original ball?

Could be breach of rule:

27-2a/3 Play of Provisional Ball in Absence of Reasonable Possibility Original Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds

Q: In the absence of reasonable possibility that a ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, may the player play a provisional ball?

A: No. If a player plays a ball under such circumstances, the ball is not a provisional ball but the ball in play – See Decision 27-2a/2.

[David in FL]

Could be breach of rule:

27-2a/3 Play of Provisional Ball in Absence of Reasonable Possibility Original Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds

Q: In the absence of reasonable possibility that a ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, may the player play a provisional ball?

A: No. If a player plays a ball under such circumstances, the ball is not a provisional ball but the ball in play – See Decision 27-2a/2.

Given the OP, where it's stated that the player thought he might have hit his ball OB, I don't think so.  That decision really is intended to prevent players from using the "provisional" as a means of practicing on the course......e.g., the original drive is visible from the tee box, clearly in bounds, but another ball is hit anyway.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luu5

Could be breach of rule:

27-2a/3 Play of Provisional Ball in Absence of Reasonable Possibility Original Ball Is Lost or Out of Bounds

Q: In the absence of reasonable possibility that a ball is lost outside a water hazard or is out of bounds, may the player play a provisional ball?

A: No. If a player plays a ball under such circumstances, the ball is not a provisional ball but the ball in play – See Decision 27-2a/2.

Given the OP, where it's stated that the player thought he might have hit his ball OB, I don't think so.  That decision really is intended to prevent players from using the "provisional" as a means of practicing on the course......e.g., the original drive is visible from the tee box, clearly in bounds, but another ball is hit anyway.

This^^  When you come into a discussion late, it helps to read the whole thing before replying.

[edwjmcgrath]

My guess is your wrong. Irrespective I was looking for the answer so I know what to do should this occur again as I didnt know the rule and it seemed unfair to me. However this has now been clarified. Thanks for your response and as a matter of point I'm not sure you can retrospectively change a match play result once the match has been finished and at no point have I suggested this. This is a section on a forum about rules so i cant see why you would take offence to someone asking for clarification.

Hey, sorry.  I didn't take offense and didn't mean to cause any.  I was pulling your chain a little-guess I should have thrown in a smiley.