what to do.... bad sand

[blue_crush]

I have to admit I don't know the answer to this one... but while watching a guy hit his ball 4 times out of the sand and not making it out or even coming close he throws the ball out onto the grass and hit it....
so heres the question...
if a person is sure they are going to get out of a trap for any number of reasons. is there a rule where they can drop out and play it.???? and what rule would it be under... I don't know the answer.....

[Fourputt]

The only allowable option under the rules that will get you out of the bunker is to declare the ball unplayable and return to where you hit the last shot from with a penalty stroke added, and no guarantee that you won't hit back into the bunker again. If you declare it unplayable and want to drop it within 2 clublengths under the procedure in Rule 28, you still have to drop it in the bunker.

If the ball lies in casual water in the bunker, you can take relief from the water, but it still has to be dropped in the bunker to avoid incurring a penalty. In a relief situation like that you can drop outside of the bunker, but you will also have to take a penalty stroke for doing so.

The best thing to do is learn how to hit a bunker shot. It really isn't that hard to get out of a bunker. Don't even worry about hitting a target, just get it out. Blasting a ball out of the sand is really pretty easy. If you really do have a lie where it isn't going to be playable, then follow the procedure above, or look it up yourself in the rule book at usga.org, Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable

[lamebums]

I have to admit I don't know the answer to this one... but while watching a guy hit his ball 4 times out of the sand and not making it out or even coming close he throws the ball out onto the grass and hit it....

Fourputt is right. The only exception I make to that rule is if there's anything larger than a pebble in the bunker. If it's a single pebble I'll kick it out of the way, but if the bunker's full of them I'll take a drop. I'm not a pro and can't afford nick marks on my wedge.

[blue_crush]

yeah maybe a ruling like for temp greens, you take 2 putt rule...
it just hurts to see some guy that can play ok and not be able to get out of a deep bunker and after 4 shots you just want to throw him a turnekit to stop the bleeding... most guys just kick it out after like 3 attempts or just drop behind the hazzard and then hit on and take whatever...
I was just wondering what advise I may give them to help,,, besides practice you sand shots... I love sand shots, I reliesh in seeing one flop up on the green next to the cup...

[getinthehole]

That's golf for you. ^^

I was wondering also, I went into a bunker the other day, and at the top there is like a little rabbit hole next to the lip. My ball went into the hole, then I just took it out and dropped it in the bunker, is that the correct thing to do or is there a rule?

[p_funk]

If the ball lies in casual water in the bunker, you can take relief from the water, but it still has to be dropped in the bunker to avoid incurring a penalty. In a relief situation like that you can drop outside of the bunker, but you will also have to take a penalty stroke for doing so.

So what happens if the bunker is full of water. For example, my bother-in-law and I were playing a round and there was a down poor of rain at about 4 am. So when we played it was still quite wet out. Anyways one of the traps was filled with water, so there was no way you could drop in the bunker without being in the water. Would you still have to take a penalty stroke?, it does not seem like you would.

[iacas]

I was wondering also, I went into a bunker the other day, and at the top there is like a little rabbit hole next to the lip. My ball went into the hole, then I just took it out and dropped it in the bunker, is that the correct thing to do or is there a rule?

It depends (a little) on whether the location of the ball was in the hazard or not. You get relief from burrowing animal holes outside the bunker and could have dropped outside the bunker.

[Benefactor]

This is only tangentially related to the topic at hand, but what pisses me off is when you hit it into a bunker and because of poor sand maintenance there is basically no sand underneath your ball and you have the club bounce off the ground underneath and back into the ball making it go at least twice as far as it should.

[Shindig]

This is only tangentially related to the topic at hand, but what pisses me off is when you hit it into a bunker and because of poor sand maintenance there is basically no sand underneath your ball and you have the club bounce off the ground underneath and back into the ball making it go at least twice as far as it should.

This happens to me quite a bit. I don't really know what to do when this comes up, other than trying to catch it solid as if on a tight lie. I have no real way to control it though.

It's one reason I want to move up onto higher quality courses. You generally get better sand, going from my little experience with resort courses.

[georgep]

This happens to me quite a bit. I don't really know what to do when this comes up, other than trying to catch it solid as if on a tight lie. I have no real way to control it though.

Try chipping it. I do it all the time from the hard clay/sand bunkers you find around Ohio. As long as there isn't too high of a lip you can usually chip it just like you would from a tight fairway lie and wind up closer than you would trying to hit an explosion shot.

[blue_crush]

heres a couple of your worst nightmares for some.....

[Benefactor]

Try chipping it. I do it all the time from the hard clay/sand bunkers you find around Ohio. As long as there isn't too high of a lip you can usually chip it just like you would from a tight fairway lie and wind up closer than you would trying to hit an explosion shot.

That could work if you actually knew there was no sand under the ball before you hit it, but most of the time you have no idea.

[Fourputt]

So what happens if the bunker is full of water. For example, my bother-in-law and I were playing a round and there was a down poor of rain at about 4 am. So when we played it was still quite wet out. Anyways one of the traps was filled with water, so there was no way you could drop in the bunker without being in the water. Would you still have to take a penalty stroke?, it does not seem like you would.

If required, you drop outside of the bunker and take the penalty. This is the Decision that covers your question:

25-1b/8 Player’s Options When Bunker Completely Covered by Casual Water Q. If a player’s ball lies in a bunker completely covered by casual water, what are his options? A. The player may play the ball as it lies or: (1) drop the ball in the bunker without penalty at the nearest point, not nearer the hole, where the depth of the casual water is least — Rule 25-1b(ii)(a); or (2) drop the ball behind the bunker under penalty of one stroke — Rule 25-1b(ii)(b); or (3) deem the ball unplayable and proceed in accordance with Rule 28.

This is only tangentially related to the topic at hand, but what pisses me off is when you hit it into a bunker and because of poor sand maintenance there is basically no sand underneath your ball and you have the club bounce off the ground underneath and back into the ball making it go at least twice as far as it should.

That's why they call them

hazards Not every one gets to play perfectly manicured courses like the pros do. I'm sure that every golfer has had this happen at some time... I just go find my ball wherever it ended up and play it.

[powerfade]

The

Blue_Crush...If the player is already on his 4th attempt the option that Fourputt gives is not an option (... return to where you hit the last shot ...) since the previous shot was in the bunker. If he picks up the ball and drops it on the grass, I would say it's a DQ. He's touching a ball in play (18-2 Ball at Rest Moved) and not returning it to its original position then breaking Rule 20-7a (i) Playing from wrong place plus Note 1 - gaining advantage by playing from wrong area which is a serious breach of the rules, which is a DQ. How you treat a casual round is up to you but for handicap posting he should just play it out from the bunker, write down the score then adjust it to his maximum stroke count under Equitable Stroke Control.

[Fourputt]

Blue_Crush...If the player is already on his 4th attempt the option that Fourputt gives is not an option (...

Keep in mind too that playing the ball in the direction you wish to go is not a guaranteed option. Depending on one's skill, or lack thereof, it's entirely possible that one might be forced to play away from the hole to escape the hazard. That even happens to the very best players in some of the sod walled pot bunkers you see in the Scottish links courses.

[Benefactor]

If required, you drop outside of the bunker and take the penalty. This is the Decision that covers your question:

They're only hazards according to the rules of golf. No good golfer treats them or looks at them that way. A hazard (in reality, if you want to look at how penal it should be) should be further away from the putting surface than a bunker is. You shouldn't be able to miss a shot by 2 yards and be in a hazard...at least not with the regularity of where bunkers are placed. I mean hell, at Riviera there is a "hazard" in the middle of a damn green. What would you do if that was a little pond? Hazard or not, that doesn't mean the grounds crew should just neglect to maintain them.

[Fourputt]

They're only hazards according to the rules of golf. No good golfer treats them or looks at them that way. A hazard (in reality, if you want to look at how penal it should be) should be further away from the putting surface than a bunker is. You shouldn't be able to miss a shot by 2 yards and be in a hazard...at least not with the regularity of where bunkers are placed. I mean hell, at Riviera there is a "hazard" in the middle of a damn green. What would you do if that was a little pond? Hazard or not, that doesn't mean the grounds crew should just neglect to maintain them.

Proximity to the green has noting to do with whether it should be a hazard or not. There is a Nicklaus designed course (in Kentucky I think), that has a creek that splits the green on one hole in half. I call that a serious hazard and being on the wrong side of the creek a huge problem. Look at the 18th hole at Harbour Town on Hilton Head. The salt marsh there comes right up to the left edge of the green... anything left of the green there is almost automatically in the hazard. There are bunkers on many Scottish courses where you have no choice but to play backwards to get out.

You assume that every golf course has unlimited resources. That just isn't the case. I would much rather have nice fairways, well cared for rough, and good greens and tee boxes. Then if there is still time and money for it, worry about the bunkers. My home course grooms the bunkers daily during the week, but the sand depth can still be quite inconsistent. The sand used is fairly coarse too, not that nice fluffy white stuff that the pros get to play out of all the time. We get bad lies, bad breaks all the time in bunkers. Nobody complains, they just play the shot dealt them. I approach every bunker shot like the unique situation that it is. Personally, I can usually tell just by walking into the bunker how firm the sand is, and get a good idea of what shot is going to be needed. I'm not always right, but that is just part of playing the game.

[sonicblue]

For your friend, if you just need to get out of the bunker, put the ball back in your stance, and just make a simple chop-down/ball-first little swing. Take into account the lip of the bunker and direction, but this is basically guaranteed to launch the ball out of any bunker. What your next shot is....well....I can't make any promises