Are you ready for some NFL Football? 2014 Edition.

[dsc123]

How would the coaches use the intelligence they are not (lol) supposed to gather? Knowledge is one thing, but integration of details into a actual game plan is even more important. Obviously knowing the opposing team playbook is a given, but both teams have 18 games on tv for review already So thats not what I would consider the marginal intelligence that could assist a game plan and get a W.

My understanding is that he filmed from the sidelines so that he could get a better view of the other team's signals that were used to relay the play call to the guys on the field.  That way, after the information was processed, either at half time or the next time they played, they knew what plays were being called.

[saevel25]

Right.

I'd give them that the Pats are "one of" the best over the past 9 years and 51 weeks, and that they're probably the most consistently good--as you say, even when Brady misses the year.

If you look at not just your defined period (which looks pretty subjective to making your own case) but over Belichek's whole time at NEP they are 2nd to only the 49ers in terms of consistency, superbowl wins, playoff appearances. Football teams in the past have been labeled an analysed by who has coached them. 49ers are looked at by the Walsh & Seifret years. Dallas you look at the Jimmy Johnson and Tom Landry.

If you want to look at the best teams over the past 10 years. I do not include this year because it isn't over yet. If NEP win this year then it changes a bit on the list below.

Patriots: 12.4 wins/yr, 1 SB win, 3 SB games played, 6 conference title games played

Indy: 11 wins/yr, 1 SB win, 2 SB games played, 3 conference title games played

Pit: 10.5 wins/yr, 2 SB wins, 3 SB games played, 3 conference title games played

NYG: 9 wins/yr, 2 SB wins, 2 SB games played, 2 conference title games played

If I had to rank the previous 10 completed seasons (regular + playoffs)

Pittsburgh

Patriots

Indy

NYG

Though Pittsburgh hasn't been to the playoffs nearly as much as the Patriots. I think the Patriots have gotten to the playoffs more often due to the division they are in.

[Slice of Life]

Patriots: 12.4 wins/yr, 1 SB win, 3 SB games played, 6 conference title games played, 2 SB games lost

Indy: 11 wins/yr, 1 SB win, 2 SB games played, 3 conference title games played

Pit: 10.5 wins/yr, 2 SB wins, 3 SB games played, 3 conference title games played

NYG: 9 wins/yr, 2 SB wins, 2 SB games played, 2 conference title games played, 2 SB games won

Fixed. :p

[saevel25]

Fixed. :p

Umm, that is in their already there if you look at superbowl games played versus superbowl games won. They are not equal.

You didn't add 1 superbowl game lost for Indy, and for Pittsburgh. I think you are a bit biased not to be equally critical of the other teams.

[dsc123]

If you look at not just your defined period (which looks pretty subjective to making your own case) but over Belichek's whole time at NEP they are 2nd to only the 49ers in terms of consistency, superbowl wins, playoff appearances. Football teams in the past have been labeled an analysed by who has coached them. 49ers are looked at by the Walsh & Seifret years. Dallas you look at the Jimmy Johnson and Tom Landry.   If you want to look at the best teams over the past 10 years. I do not include this year because it isn't over yet. If NEP win this year then it changes a bit on the list below.  Patriots: 12.4 wins/yr, 1 SB win, 3 SB games played, 6 conference title games played Indy: 11 wins/yr, 1 SB win, 2 SB games played, 3 conference title games played Pit: 10.5 wins/yr, 2 SB wins, 3 SB games played, 3 conference title games played NYG: 9 wins/yr, 2 SB wins, 2 SB games played, 2 conference title games played If I had to rank the previous 10 completed seasons (regular + playoffs) Pittsburgh Patriots Indy NYG Though Pittsburgh hasn't been to the playoffs nearly as much as the Patriots. I think the Patriots have gotten to the playoffs more often due to the division they are in.

Yes, I was wrong because I thought of the pats winning in 2004,not 2005. So they have 1 in the past decade. I'm not picking the time frame to win, you can pick whatever time frame you want and the answer is different. Over the past 15 years the pats have been the best. Over the past 10, the third best. Over the past 9, maybe the 8th best or so--essentially the best of the teams who were never actually the best. But again, my point was that you can't have it both ways. Personally, when ranking who was the best team of a given period, I'd do something like rank them by championships, and break ties with something like playoff appearances. Basically, the same as you but keeping the Giants at 2. I wouldn't even consider doing it this way for players.

[Slice of Life]

Umm, that is in their already there if you look at superbowl games played versus superbowl games won. They are not equal.

You didn't add 1 superbowl game lost for Indy, and for Pittsburgh. I think you are a bit biased not to be equally critical of the other teams.

I wanted to emphasize the losses for NE.

[teamroper60]

And in a new twist on deflategate:  http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/deflation-experiments-show-patriots-may-have-a-point-after-all/ar-AA8LI9x    Doesn't explain why the Colts balls were at proper spec (unless of course they were over-inflated to begin with, ala Aaron Rodgers) but apparently it is entirely possible for a ball to lose 2psi due to the change in temperature..

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123

Either that or I was off by a week. there are 7 teams with more championships than the patriots over the past 9 years and 51 weeks.

Originally Posted by teamroper60

As I said, your hatred is showing.   Rather than trying to change the parameters when proven wrong, you might as well embrace it....

He's not hating. He is just pointing out a fact. The Patriots haven't won squat in ten years.

[teamroper60]

He's not hating. He is just pointing out a fact. The Patriots haven't won squat in ten years.

Not a fact, an opinion.   It has been shown repeatedly that they have won a helluva lot over those 10 years, including a Super Bowl.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by phan52

He's not hating. He is just pointing out a fact. The Patriots haven't won squat in ten years.

Originally Posted by teamroper60

Not a fact, an opinion.   It has been shown repeatedly that they have won a helluva lot over those 10 years, including a Super Bowl.

Wow. OK, 9 years and 363 days.

[Golfingdad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123


The Patriots were accused a filming walk-through, too but they denied it and it wasn't proven. Who was the Broncos coach at the time? I wonder where he learned that from. And where is that coach now?

People being up that point about the pats just filming from the wrong location but I'm not sure that it's true. Belicheat talked about it the other day and said they were just filming what everyone else in the stadium could see, but that they were wrong. It sounds like there's more to it, like if they were in the correct place maybe they couldn't see the signals. Why else would they get such a big penalty and have the tapes destroyed? I know this doesn't amount to much, it just doesn't pass the sniff test to me. Also, I find it really hard to believe that they cheated for a purpose other than helping them win games.

Here's what Wikipedia says:In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

Dan, you goofed here ... this was supposed to be a reply to me, right?

Regarding the filming of the walk-through - as I understand it, it was reported then it was retracted.  So, you can technically say that it simply wasn't proven, but a retraction sounds to me more like the story was bunk to begin with.  In fact, it sounds here a lot like a misunderstanding, followed by shitty reporting:

Quote:

Nearly six months after the incident, the Boston Herald reported, citing an unnamed source, that the Patriots had also videotaped the St. Louis Rams ' walkthrough practice prior to Super Bowl XXXVI in February 2002 , ^[7] an allegation denied by Belichick ^[6] and later retracted by the Herald. Meanwhile, Matt Walsh, a Patriots video assistant in 2001 who was fired after the team's 2002 season, told the media the same week that he had information and materials regarding the Patriots' videotaping practices, but demanded an indemnity agreement before speaking with the NFL. ^[8]

The NFL reached a deal with Walsh on April 23, 2008 and arranged a meeting between Goodell and Walsh. ^[9] Prior to the meeting, Walsh sent eight videotapes, containing opponents' coaches' signals from the 2000 through 2002 seasons, in accordance with the agreement. ^[10] Goodell and Walsh met on May 13, 2008, at which time Walsh told Goodell he and other Patriots employees were present at the Rams' walkthrough to set up video equipment for the game but that there was no tape of the walkthrough made; as a result, Goodell told the media no additional penalties would be brought against the Patriots. ^[11] Less than 24 hours later, the Herald issued an apology for the article about the alleged walkthrough tape. ^[12]

Regardless, good pick up on the coaching thing.  Josh McDaniels was an assistant coach for the Patriots during the entirety of the spygate.  Then Josh McDaniels was the coach of the Broncos during their videotape scandal, and now he's again a coach with the Patriots during this scandal.  My source** tells me that he has been the mastermind behind all of this, not Belicheck and not Brady.  In fact, neither of them knew anything about any of the scandals, so the real culprit here is McDaniels.  Makes sense too, wasn't he the moron who wasted a super high draft pick on Tim Tebow???  Again, all of this I have from my high level anonymous source.**

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(That's the little imaginary guy in my brain that likes to make shit up for fun! ;))

[teamroper60]

Wow. OK, 9 years and 363 days.

At this point, that is not only a ridiculous comment, it isn't even original....

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Wow. OK, 9 years and 363 days.

Originally Posted by teamroper60

At this point, that is not only a ridiculous comment, it isn't even original....

Truth. Deal.

[dsc123]

Dan, you goofed here ... this was supposed to be a reply to me, right?

Regarding the filming of the walk-through - as I understand it, it was reported then it was retracted.  So, you can technically say that it simply wasn't proven, but a retraction sounds to me more like the story was bunk to begin with.  In fact, it sounds here a lot like a misunderstanding, followed by shitty reporting:

Yeah, I'm talking to you!  Sorry, I'm getting sloppy because I've been responding on my phone a lot and the mobile version just gives me this tiny little box to type in that's hard to edit.

But yeah, they retracted after Goodell said he made a deal with the guy and that the guy recanted.  Maybe the guy lied when he said there was a tape or maybe he lied when he said there wasn't a tape.  I guess its up to us to decide.  For me, the fact that the Pats OC did it later tips the scale towards guilty for me.  The Rams players also say the pats audibled to correctly cover plays they had never run before, but practiced during the walkthrough (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1508325-did-the-patriots-really-cheat-marshall-faulk-out-of-a-super-bowl).  Maybe sour grapes, sure.

This may not tip the scales for you, but we dont know what happened and I think both guesses are equally reasonable.  But remember that list of cheating you wrote to show that people do this stuff all the time?  Doesn't that also make it a little easier to believe?  I'm not saying criminal conviction standard--there's certainly reasonable doubt--but its it possible?  Even you have to agree that it is.  Is it likely?  That's where we probably disagree.  I'll let you in a big secret, I'm happy to throw out allegations against the pats based on a low standard of evidence.

But if you go back and read quotes about what happened at the time, its really sketchy.  There were also allegations that the Patriots were jamming the other teams communications, that they were using a different frequency to communicate with Brady to avoid the NFL's detection (there's a 15 second cut off to communications with the players), and that they were communicating with the defensive players, which was illegal at the time.  One of their former players (Ted Johnson) said that he would get a paper before the game with the other team's audible calls on it, and that nobody told him who made the list or where the information came from.   The quotes I read from owners and people like Bill Polian seemed to indicate that there was more there, that they were looking into the communication issues, for example, but that the teams really wanted to move on and not make it seem like there was a lot of cheating going on.  They had a product to protect.  This, of course, is my interpretation of those quotes, yours may vary.

Regardless, good pick up on the coaching thing.  Josh McDaniels was an assistant coach for the Patriots during the entirety of the spygate.  Then Josh McDaniels was the coach of the Broncos during their videotape scandal, and now he's again a coach with the Patriots during this scandal.  My source** tells me that he has been the mastermind behind all of this, not Belicheck and not Brady.  In fact, neither of them knew anything about any of the scandals, so the real culprit here is McDaniels.  Makes sense too, wasn't he the moron who wasted a super high draft pick on Tim Tebow???  Again, all of this I have from my high level anonymous source.**

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(That's the little imaginary guy in my brain that likes to make shit up for fun! ;))

No way.  he's just a patsy for the criminal duo of Belicheat and Brady ;)

[club ho]

Apologies if this link has been posted already.

https://www.facebook.com/166225546816522/photos/a.179463235492753.31856.166225546816522/641815699257502/?type=1&theater;

And they call the Patriots cheaters!

[dsc123]

Apologies if this link has been posted already.

https://www.facebook.com/166225546816522/photos/a.179463235492753.31856.166225546816522/641815699257502/?type=1&theater;

And they call the Patriots cheaters!

Those are fines against players for illegal hits and such, not against teams or coaches for cheating.

Also, it doesn't include the big fine coming their way for the deflated footballs.

[club ho]

Those are fines against players for illegal hits and such, not against teams or coaches for cheating.

If it was the PATRIOTS who had over 2 million in fines for "Illegal hits and such" would you be so quick to explain it? I doubt it! I would bet you would be using it further besmirch the Patriots brand and you know it.

[saevel25]

Those are fines against players for illegal hits and such, not against teams or coaches for cheating.

Also, it doesn't include the big fine coming their way for the deflated footballs.

Isn't illegal hits and such cheating,they are against the rules? Given the penalty are only fines. Isn't it still cheating to willfully engage in illegal hits and such when they can possible gain you an advantage on the field by taking a player out?

Also, doesn't that speak about the poor culture at those franchises that allow such lack of proper technique in how to tackle with in the rules. Does the coaches there just not care about player safety and or turn a blind eye to it so they willfully gain an advantage of maybe taking out a starter on the other team?

Prove they will even be punished? The point is not future SPECULATION, it is about past perception. The perception is that the NEP are a dirty organization. When in fact their players are in fact about middle of the road when it comes to how they play the game.