Thoughts on Ray Rice getting (only) a 2 game suspension

[newtogolf]

We're not talking about Rhonda Rousey here. I've heard that this girl was tiny, like 5' or something.

It's a good point though, to consider if she was knocked out from a push. I'd have a different feeling about it entirely. I've just envisioned this giant guy throwing a punch into this little girl's face and it makes me cringe.

Agreed Rice's wife isn't as big as Rhonda.  I'd also have a much different position if he hit her multiple times.  Once is bad but multiple times goes beyond attempting to defend and more into attempting to harm.

[Spyder]

Agreed Rice's wife isn't as big as Rhonda.  I'd also have a much different position if he hit her multiple times.  Once is bad but multiple times goes beyond attempting to defend and more into attempting to harm.

Eh... some may argue that a jacked NFL player punching a tiny chick in the face is intent to harm. I mean, she was KO'd after all. That wasn't a held-back, love tap to let her know that he was pissed. That was a haymaker.

[RonTheSavage]

That is absolutely false. Nothing was hidden or withheld when Ben was out raping women. And provoked or not...there's no excuse for a professional male athlete of 200+ lbs to knock out his woman. Period. I've been attacked by a woman before...I just restrained them and they couldn't do anything. And I'm no Ray Rice...

I dont understand how you can say that is absolutely false, we wouldnt have any idea if anything was hidden when Big Ben was out raping. It's hard to believe that any person would wait to win a SB and in a contract year decide to become a woman beater. We dont know what happened in that elevator and I doubt we ever will. [quote name="Spyder" url="/t/76121/thoughts-on-ray-rice-getting-only-a-2-game-suspension/72#post_1029953"]Eh... some may argue that a jacked NFL player punching a tiny chick in the face is intent to harm. I mean, she was KO'd after all. That wasn't a held-back, love tap to let her know that he was pissed. That was a haymaker. [/quote] I've seen drunk MEN knocked out from an open handed slap. I doubt it was a haymaker bad intentions type punch but hey I wasnt there. I dont wanna sound like a jerk but I've lived long enough to not to automatically cry foul in these situations.

[Golfingdad]

I sincerely hope you aren't insinuating race as an issue in people's reaction.

Ofcourse it is! It totally is, and if this was Peyton Manning or Tom Brady I bet good money that the footage would never even have been released.

I hope I'm not crossing any lines here as I'm a little reluctant to post this, but here goes anyway ...

I think that the racist reaction might actually entail being less outraged over a Ray Rice doing something like this than a Peyton Manning, wouldn't it?  I feel like the racist would just roll their eyes and go "Surprise, surprise, another one of them doing something stupid."  Whereas, they would think the white QB was infallible and would be utterly shocked at the story and make a bigger deal out of it.

Regardless, I stand by my previous post that I feel race has nothing, or very little to do with any of this.  It's all about the preconceived notion we have of the player and of their popularity.  I can't imagine anybody would have any qualms about roasting Johnny Manziel if he did something like this.  And would anybody be surprised?  On the flip side, would it even make the news if Mr. Irrelevant did this?

[RonTheSavage]

I hope I'm not crossing any lines here as I'm a little reluctant to post this, but here goes anyway ... I think that the racist reaction might actually entail being less outraged over a Ray Rice doing something like this than a Peyton Manning, wouldn't it?  I feel like the racist would just roll their eyes and go "Surprise, surprise, another one of them doing something stupid."  Whereas, they would think the white QB was infallible and would be utterly shocked at the story and make a bigger deal out of it. Regardless, I stand by my previous post that I feel race has nothing, or very little to do with any of this.  It's all about the preconceived notion we have of the player and of their popularity.  I can't imagine anybody would have any qualms about roasting Johnny Manziel if he did something like this.  And would anybody be surprised?  On the flip side, would it even make the news if Mr. Irrelevant did this?

Im still waiting on the part where you cross the line LOL. Your post was totally fine, everyone should feel free to voice their honest opinion no matter what. Everyone may not agree but we're all grown-ups here. But to the race issue, as soon as I heard it was only two games my first thought was there has to be more to the story that we dont know about. No way on earth a black man punches a woman (we assume) and gets off with less than 10 games. The fact that he got off so easy the wife must've stabbed him in the neck with a stiletto or something (Im mostly joking here) It's interesting to me to see the reaction from the suspension, thats where I see race coming in to play. I think that if this was a white player on the same level as Rice, so let's say Jason Witten I doubt the footage makes the news. I may be wrong but hat's just my opinion.

[Gunther]

Im still waiting on the part where you cross the line LOL. Your post was totally fine, everyone should feel free to voice their honest opinion no matter what. Everyone may not agree but we're all grown-ups here. But to the race issue, as soon as I heard it was only two games my first thought was there has to be more to the story that we dont know about. No way on earth a black man punches a woman (we assume) and gets off with less than 10 games. The fact that he got off so easy the wife must've stabbed him in the neck with a stiletto or something (Im mostly joking here) It's interesting to me to see the reaction from the suspension, thats where I see race coming in to play. I think that if this was a white player on the same level as Rice, so let's say Jason Witten I doubt the footage makes the news. I may be wrong but hat's just my opinion.

Absolutely wrong, look at Manziel. He gets his pic plastered with a rolled up $100 bill. In these times, if footage is available, it's getting shown. People gotta get paid. And lay off my boy Jason Witten. ;)

[newtogolf]

Absolutely wrong, look at Manziel. He gets his pic plastered with a rolled up $100 bill. In these times, if footage is available, it's getting shown. People gotta get paid.

And lay off my boy Jason Witten. ;)

Manziel gets his picture plastered because he has crappy friends that take the pics and distribute them for fun or money.

[Spyder]

I've seen drunk MEN knocked out from an open handed slap. I doubt it was a haymaker bad intentions type punch but hey I wasnt there. I dont wanna sound like a jerk but I've lived long enough to not to automatically cry foul in these situations.

I'm not saying that I personally am arguing what happened because I wasn't there. Just saying that it's fairly obvious that he's going to do damage to a woman regardless of how he hits her. Raising your hand to anybody is intent to harm, otherwise why are you doing it? The black and white fact is that you're trying to hurt the other person - whether it's an offensive or defensive act.

I boxed for 7 years and definitely understand circumstances and what it takes to knock somebody out. I can also say that the instances where people are KO'd by mishap (slaps, bumps on the jaw/temple/neck, etc.) are rare. I can't find the link now, but the report that I read said she was pretty busted up so I could only assume it was a damn good hit.

Regardless, women have no right hitting men. Men definitely do not need to hit back if they are hit either. That is how I was raised. If a woman jacks me in the mouth and I am still standing, you bet I'm walking away because I know just how much damage one of my retaliation hits could, and likely would, do to a woman. That's simply my belief. I don't agree with the "if she hits me like a man, I'll treat her like a man" deal because that's ridiculous in my opinion.

In conclusion, I think Ray Rice is a punk. You don't raise your hand to a woman, period. I can't have even the slightest amount of respect for anyone who hits a woman unless they're doing so with their life or property in danger (a robbery, armed attack, or a similarly justifiable scenario).

[Gunther]

Manziel gets his picture plastered because he has crappy friends that take the pics and distribute them for fun or money.

True, my point is, they all do. And the footage we saw of Rice was hotel security. Someone got paid for that too. So, if it's available, it's going to be made public. Race has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[RonTheSavage]

Absolutely wrong, look at Manziel. He gets his pic plastered with a rolled up $100 bill. In these times, if footage is available, it's getting shown. People gotta get paid. And lay off my boy Jason Witten. ;)

I still think Jason Witten had something to do with T.O. being ran out of Dallas, but thats another subject! LOL [quote name="Spyder" url="/t/76121/thoughts-on-ray-rice-getting-only-a-2-game-suspension/72#post_1030005"] I'm not saying that I personally am arguing what happened because I wasn't there. Just saying that it's fairly obvious that he's going to do damage to a woman regardless of how he hits her. Raising your hand to anybody is intent to harm, otherwise why are you doing it? The black and white fact is that you're trying to hurt the other person - whether it's an offensive or defensive act. I boxed for 7 years and definitely understand circumstances and what it takes to knock somebody out. I can also say that the instances where people are KO'd by mishap (slaps, bumps on the jaw/temple/neck, etc.) are rare. I can't find the link now, but the report that I read said she was pretty busted up so I could only assume it was a damn good hit. Regardless, women have no right hitting men. Men definitely do not need to hit back if they are hit either. That is how I was raised. If a woman jacks me in the mouth and I am still standing, you bet I'm walking away because I know just how much damage one of my retaliation hits could, and likely would, do to a woman. That's simply my belief. I don't agree with the "if she hits me like a man, I'll treat her like a man" deal because that's ridiculous in my opinion. In conclusion, I think Ray Rice is a punk. You don't raise your hand to a woman, period. I can't have even the slightest amount of respect for anyone who hits a woman unless they're doing so with their life or property in danger (a robbery, armed attack, or a similarly justifiable scenario). [/quote] Good post and I feel I need to clarify something. I've been hit once by a woman that I was dating. It was in public several people saw it and laughed. I just walked away and hitting her back never crossed my mind. The thing is some women believe they can take a man. When my wife and I first got together we would mess around and wrestle play fight type stuff. It freaked her out that I could pin her on the ground and she would be helpless. She thanked me for that and told me her dad would go easy on her and she thought she was a bad ass. She told me she needed to learn that lesson and the difference between her strength and that of the average man. And I agree that Ray Rice is a punk, how much of a punk I doubt we will ever know.

[BENtSwing]

Only a 2-game suspension and the Ravens are now promoting Rice MORE via their website...I guess we shouldn't expect anything different from an organization that also employed a murderer in Ray Lewis.

Also, Steven A. Smith spouted off some ignorant nonsense about woman "provoking" men, and I think ESPN handed him a more severe suspension than Rice!! Does that make any sense???

[Golfingdad]

But to the race issue, as soon as I heard it was only two games my first thought was there has to be more to the story that we dont know about. No way on earth a black man punches a woman (we assume) and gets off with less than 10 games. The fact that he got off so easy the wife must've stabbed him in the neck with a stiletto or something (Im mostly joking here) It's interesting to me to see the reaction from the suspension, thats where I see race coming in to play. I think that if this was a white player on the same level as Rice, so let's say Jason Witten I doubt the footage makes the news. I may be wrong but hat's just my opinion.

The reason I think you are wrong about this is because of Ben Roethlisberger.  I could be wrong, and the Pittsburgh/Ohio guys can help out on this, but I think he was viewed very positively and I recall liking him and thinking he was a good guy prior to his incident.  But instead of us all defending him and not being outraged because of our opinion, we learned the truth and then CHANGED our opinion of him.  He's a scuzball.  Color isn't really an issue here, I don't believe.

And I'd also bet that if there was video, people would be champing at the bit and drooling all over themselves to see that.  The more famous and more unexpected, the more we want it.

Video of Josh Gordon or Johnny Manziel smoking pot?  Meh, old news.  Video of Rory McIlroy making out with a dude at a gay club, or Peyton Manning peeing on a hooker?  Bring it on!!

[RonTheSavage]

Only a 2-game suspension and the Ravens are now promoting Rice MORE via their website...I guess we shouldn't expect anything different from an organization that also employed a murderer in Ray Lewis. Also, Steven A. Smith spouted off some ignorant nonsense about woman "provoking" men, and I think ESPN handed him a more severe suspension than Rice!! Does that make any sense???

This is what Stephen A Said: Im sorry but I agree with him. We know you have no business putting your hands on a woman. I don’t know how many times I got to reiterate that. But as a man who was raised by women, see I know what I’m going to do if somebody touches a female member of my family. I know what I’m going to do, I know what my boys are going to do. I know what, I’m going to have to remind myself that I work for the Worldwide Leader, I’m going to have to get law enforcement officials involved because of what I’m going to be tempted to do. But what I’ve tried to employ the female members of my family, some of who you all met and talked to and what have you, is that again, and this what, I’ve done this all my life, let’s make sure we don’t do anything to provoke wrong actions, because if I come, or somebody else come, whether it’s law enforcement officials, your brother or the fellas that you know, if we come after somebody has put their hands on you, it doesn’t negate the fact that they already put their hands on you. So let’s try to make sure that we can do our part in making sure that that doesn’t happen.” “Now you got some dudes that are just horrible and they’re going to do it anyway, and there’s never an excuse to put your hands on a woman. But domestic violence or whatever the case may be, with men putting their hands on women, is obviously a very real, real issue in our society. And I think that just talking about what guys shouldn’t do, we got to also make sure that you can do your part to do whatever you can do to make, to try to make sure it doesn’t happen. We know they’re wrong. We know they’re criminals. We know they probably deserve to be in jail. In Ray Rice’s case, he probably deserves more than a 2-game suspension which we both acknowledged. But at the same time, we also have to make sure that we learn as much as we can about elements of provocation. Not that there’s real provocation, but the elements of provocation, you got to make sure that you address them, because we’ve got to do is do what we can to try to prevent the situation from happening in any way. And I don’t think that’s broached enough, is all I’m saying. No point of blame.” [quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/76121/thoughts-on-ray-rice-getting-only-a-2-game-suspension/72#post_1030040"]The reason I think you are wrong about this is because of Ben Roethlisberger.  I could be wrong, and the Pittsburgh/Ohio guys can help out on this, but I think he was viewed very positively and I recall liking him and thinking he was a good guy prior to his incident.  But instead of us all defending him and not being outraged because of our opinion, we learned the truth and then CHANGED our opinion of him.  He's a scuzball.  Color isn't really an issue here, I don't believe. And I'd also bet that if there was video, people would be champing at the bit and drooling all over themselves to see that.  The more famous and more unexpected, the more we want it. Video of Josh Gordon or Johnny Manziel smoking pot?  Meh, old news.  Video of Rory McIlroy making out with a dude at a gay club, or Peyton Manning peeing on a hooker?  Bring it on!! :bugout: [/quote] I'd love to be wrong on this issue, actually I'd love to be proven wrong. I just see things in regards to race in a jacked up way due to personal experiences.

[iacas]

The reason I think you are wrong about this is because of Ben Roethlisberger.  I could be wrong, and the Pittsburgh/Ohio guys can help out on this, but I think he was viewed very positively and I recall liking him and thinking he was a good guy prior to his incident.  But instead of us all defending him and not being outraged because of our opinion, we learned the truth and then CHANGED our opinion of him.  He's a scuzball.  Color isn't really an issue here, I don't believe.

He may or may not be a scuzball. He's married, with a kid now, too. And charges were never pressed, so it could have been simply that the woman was seeking attention or a payoff or something. Who knows? (FWIW I tend to think he perhaps WAS a sleaze, got away with crossing the line a bit, but didn't actually rape anyone, and then grew up.)

But… I will point out again that BR was suspended six (reduced to four) games despite charges never even being filed and BR maintaining his innocence. Ray Rice actually did something and got two games? Seems illogical to me, but… just as the case with Tiger, I don't really care what these guys do off the field. I cared that BR couldn't play football for 4-6 weeks. That was about it. BR and RR didn't rape or knock out anyone in my family or group of friends, so I don't really care too much.

I'd love to be wrong on this issue, actually I'd love to be proven wrong. I just see things in regards to race in a jacked up way due to personal experiences.

Don't take this the wrong way, but… seeing things as racial when they may not be is a form of racism too. I don't know that such an attitude improves racism, because you're asking a bunch of people to prove a negative (that they're not racists).

[Gunther]

I still think Jason Witten had something to do with T.O. being ran out of Dallas, but thats another subject! LOL.

You know, I never heard that. I know Parcells never wanted him. Don't think TO did much after he left here so whomever was responsible for it, good on em, timing was just right

[Golfingdad]

He may or may not be a scuzball. He's married, with a kid now, too. And charges were never pressed, so it could have been simply that the woman was seeking attention or a payoff or something. Who knows? (FWIW I tend to think he perhaps WAS a sleaze, got away with crossing the line a bit, but didn't actually rape anyone, and then grew up.)

But… I will point out again that BR was suspended six (reduced to four) games despite charges never even being filed and BR maintaining his innocence. Ray Rice actually did something and got two games? Seems illogical to me, but… just as the case with Tiger, I don't really care what these guys do off the field. I cared that BR couldn't play football for 4-6 weeks. That was about it. BR and RR didn't rape or knock out anyone in my family or group of friends, so I don't really care too much.

Good points all.  But if video was was available of some incident (assuming one actually occured), don't you think that him being white would have absolutely no bearing on how badly the press/public would try to get their hands on said video?

[iacas]

Good points all.  But if video was was available of some incident (assuming one actually occured), don't you think that him being white would have absolutely no bearing on how badly the press/public would try to get their hands on said video?

Yes. No bearing. Only probably his status in the game.

People wouldn't care if Vijay Singh did something, but if Phil did something it'd be bigger news. And if Tiger did something (like he did?), even BIGGER news.

[RonTheSavage]

He may or may not be a scuzball. He's married, with a kid now, too. And charges were never pressed, so it could have been simply that the woman was seeking attention or a payoff or something. Who knows? (FWIW I tend to think he perhaps WAS a sleaze, got away with crossing the line a bit, but didn't actually rape anyone, and then grew up.) But… I will point out again that BR was suspended six (reduced to four) games despite charges never even being filed and BR maintaining his innocence. Ray Rice actually did something and got two games? Seems illogical to me, but… just as the case with Tiger, I don't really care what these guys do off the field. I cared that BR couldn't play football for 4-6 weeks. That was about it. BR and RR didn't rape or knock out anyone in my family or group of friends, so I don't really care too much. Don't take this the wrong way, but… seeing things as racial when they may not be is a form of racism too. I don't know that such an attitude improves racism, because you're asking a bunch of people to prove a negative (that they're not racists).

No offense taken at all. I know I still have some growing to do as a person. Im working on having less of a chip on my shoulder. I really didnt want to come off as the guy that thinks everyone/everything is racist until proven otherwise. That would be an exhausting way to go through life and I have two kids so I have zero energy to spare LOL.