Ted Bishop removed from office for calling Ian Poulter a lil girl

[JonMA1]

First you have to agree that "lil girl" is actually derogatory.  I have a daughter, little girls I've been around cry and whine a lot so is that derogatory or a character trait of a girl (2-3)?  If he used girl or woman I could see it being more derogatory.  I can't think of an ethnic insult that would be equivalent of lil girl.

My issue with Bishop is he got involved with the situation at all.  Faldo is a big boy (is that derogatory?) and can defend himself so there was no need for Bishop to call out Poulter in defense of Faldo.  It wasn't Bishop's fight and as PGA President he shouldn't have been in the middle of it.

He also shouldn't have called Poulter any names, derogatory or not.  He could have simply said it's not becoming of a professional golfer to disparage a past champion.

I don't think it matters whether you and I agree or disagree on whether he meant it as an insult towards women - more than likely most of us agree is was not. The possibility that some people, or more precisely the wrong people perceived it as such may have been what mattered.

I may be completely off track and the issue of gender was never even on the minds of the members of the board when they made their decision. Maybe it was purely the fact that he got involved with an issue outside his set of responsibilities and the PGA thought that was enough of a reason.

I agree 100% that it was not his place to speak out. In his interview on GC, he said exactly that.

Disagree somewhat.  They may not have over-reacted as much, however, I think it would have been equally as wrong and avoidable.  It's really not that hard to NOT insult people online.

I get into arguments with people on here all of the time, and they sometimes say things that make me want to say something mean, but for the most part I avoid it.  It's really, really, easy to do that.  And I don't even have an important, high-profile job.  If I came on here or twitter and called one of you guys a name, my boss wouldn't care.

So even without consequences, its easy to know not to be dumb enough to insult people on twitter or facebook, so I don't have a lot of sympathy for a guy who is in such a position of stature, because the dude should know better.

Agree with you on this. He had complete control over this situation until he hit "send".

As far as firing someone for doing something seemingly benign, I had to do it many years ago. It wasn't done out of anger, fear for losing my job, or outside pressure. Nor did I dislike the person - he was pretty good worker and a decent human being. And at no point did I forget how bad it sucks to be unemployed. But it was a relatively  easy decision. He did something that was really dumb (after he was asked once to please not do it again) and it blew up in his face.

you are absolved of doucheness. Fair question. Wrong question, because we are not dominoes nor dollars,and homogenity is not possible except in inanimate objects, but you asked a fair question.

You have to remember I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I'm probably not clear on your point. But I'll give it a try... Several years ago there was the on-again-off-again story about professional sports franchises such as the Washington Redskins and Cleveland Indians and how some Native Americans are offended by the teams' names. When a journalist asked one of the players (who was not Native American) if he agreed the names are offensive, the player answered "it doesn't matter what I think, if people are offended, it's offensive".

That thread is here:

This is a spiraling way off-topic so I apologize.

[newtogolf]

You have to remember I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I'm probably not clear on your point. But I'll give it a try... Several years ago there was the on-again-off-again story about professional sports franchises such as the Washington Redskins and Cleveland Indians and how some Native Americans are offended by the teams' names. When a journalist asked one of the players (who was not Native American) if he agreed the names are offensive, the player answered "it doesn't matter what I think, if people are offended, it's offensive".

That thread is here:

This is a spiraling way off-topic so I apologize.

You're right, the problem is these days people can be and are offended by virtually anything.

Would Santa Claus be upset for people calling him a "Jolly Old Man" since jolly seems to be a word associated with fat people and old man has negative connotations as well?

Should white people be offended if someone says you jump like a white guy?

There are certain references that need to be removed from our society but we have to be careful to avoid overreaction.

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="newtogolf" url="/t/77773/ted-bishop-removed-from-office-for-calling-ian-poulter-a-lil-girl/162#post_1070769"]   [/QUOTE] You have to remember I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, so I'm probably not clear on your point. But I'll give it a try... Several years ago there was the on-again-off-again story about professional sports franchises such as the Washington Redskins and Cleveland Indians and how some Native Americans are offended by the teams' names. When a journalist asked one of the players (who was not Native American) if he agreed the names are offensive, the player answered "it doesn't matter what I think, if people are offended, it's offensive".  That thread is here:  [CONTENTEMBED=/t/70604/political-correctness-how-far-should-it-go-should-the-washington-redskins-change-their-name layout=inline]​[/CONTENTEMBED]  This is a spiraling way off-topic so I apologize.

I didn't make my point because you were making it, that being that I like adjectives also and the descriptions we all use to segregate groups of people in communication. I never met an asprin that was a douche, and if there were a group of asprin and one was a douche, I would have a hard time even talking about it in a way anybody could understand because I couldnt describe a bunch of aspirin in a way to make one stand out from the rest or a group stand out either. The PC thing is hilarious sometimes if you can imagine it along the lines of someone saying you cant use words to describe people. The words describe the speaker too though, as anyone who has tried to understand my poor grammar knows. Remember when the news would not show a picture or describe the race of a criminal a town should be worried about? There were profiling overtones, but the word profile hadnt come into its current usage. We had no idea what they were saying we should be on the lookout for,but I notice thats changing recently. Ted used some words we all understood to some degree. I think his intent may have been misunderstood, but it came across as an insult, which is more of a problem really than including a group of "lil girls" in a comm indicating they only were worth mentioning as a measure of insult so thats disrespectful to "lil girls". So Ted is insulting and lacks respect. Give it up for a master of efficient speaking. He managed to get both in one tweet or whatever. Ted managed to discribe himself as insulting and disrespectful and got fired. I can see why. Maybe society is returning to a demand for respect but we call it PC. Uh oh...I just realized I might be looking at a situation where this increasing public demand for respect could actually end up with my wife making me wear a coat and tie to go to the grocery store. I see that formality in old movies sometimes.

[JonMA1]

Again, this post is under that assumption that gender had some role in the decision. If that's not the case, you guys can tell me to shut the hell up.

I think if you polled 100 women at a golf course, showed them Bishop's tweet, explained who he was and why he sent it, 50 of them wouldn't care in the least and may even ask "can I get back to playing golf now". If you then took the remaining 50 and asked them their opinions, 25 might say something like "the tweet was insensitive or it wasn't his place to get involved, but it's not that big of a deal". Of the remaining 25, there might be a varying degrees of anger or feelings of being insulted with less than half of those believing he should lose his job. Of those 10 or so remaining, there might be one who would be pissed off enough to take the time to write an email or make a phone call asking for his job.

There are two points I'm trying to make.

The first is that most of us playing recreational golf, don't really care what goes on in the PGA. We're not going to give up the game because the president of the organization may be insensitive or unable to use good judgement. Nor are we going to stop watching the sport as spectators. There've been times where I was so disgusted with what was going on in a sport I'll lose interest for a couple years, but not over something like this.

The second is that not all members of a specific group are as irrational as those who yell the loudest. These people have zero tolerance (we will not tolerate intolerance!) and every issue is a one-sided battleground with which they go for the kill. Again, don't know how much this had to do with the Ted Bishop story, but if you accept a job such as President of the PGA, you have to know this comes with the territory.

While talking to a female co-worker one day, I was describing how ridiculously serious some of the men in my softball league take the game. I then made the statement "no offense, but c'mon, it's a girl's game". The woman kind of flipped out over that (her and I still laugh about it to this day). My insult was towards macho a-holes who think and act like they're playing MLB. It was in no way intended as an insult to women. But having never been a woman, it was nearly impossible for me to think (ahead) from that perspective before I spoke. This would never have cost me my job (I've said much, much worse), but I did learn from it.

[ryanson]

or youtube

[ay33660]

I don't think it's "political correctness gone mad' to hold some to appropriate standards. However the degree of sexism in the language, it was still sexist language, and that is not okay for anyone, let alone the president of the freaking PGA.

Sexism isn't okay, ever. I would be horrified if any of the female members of my friends and family heard that crap. My nieces don't need to grow up thinking that being a 'lil girl' is slang for being weak. It's 100% unacceptable.

Again, this post is under that assumption that gender had some role in the decision. If that's not the case, you guys can tell me to shut the hell up.

I think if you polled 100 women at a golf course, showed them Bishop's tweet, explained who he was and why he sent it, 50 of them wouldn't care in the least and may even ask "can I get back to playing golf now". If you then took the remaining 50 and asked them their opinions, 25 might say something like "the tweet was insensitive or it wasn't his place to get involved, but it's not that big of a deal". Of the remaining 25, there might be a varying degrees of anger or feelings of being insulted with less than half of those believing he should lose his job. Of those 10 or so remaining, there might be one who would be pissed off enough to take the time to write an email or make a phone call asking for his job.

There are two points I'm trying to make.

The first is that most of us playing recreational golf, don't really care what goes on in the PGA. We're not going to give up the game because the president of the organization may be insensitive or unable to use good judgement. Nor are we going to stop watching the sport as spectators. There've been times where I was so disgusted with what was going on in a sport I'll lose interest for a couple years, but not over something like this.

The second is that not all members of a specific group are as irrational as those who yell the loudest. These people have zero tolerance (we will not tolerate intolerance!) and every issue is a one-sided battleground with which they go for the kill. Again, don't know how much this had to do with the Ted Bishop story, but if you accept a job such as President of the PGA, you have to know this comes with the territory.

While talking to a female co-worker one day, I was describing how ridiculously serious some of the men in my softball league take the game. I then made the statement "no offense, but c'mon, it's a girl's game". The woman kind of flipped out over that (her and I still laugh about it to this day). My insult was towards macho a-holes who think and act like they're playing MLB. It was in no way intended as an insult to women. But having never been a woman, it was nearly impossible for me to think (ahead) from that perspective before I spoke. This would never have cost me my job (I've said much, much worse), but I did learn from it.

JomMA1:

I agree with all your points and offer up that it isn't just the women that can be irrational. Refer to the post from "jbishop15" and specifically "I would be horrified if any of the female members of my friends and family heard that crap." Give me a f**k'n break .... now THAT is an irrational reaction.