Why do iron loft gaps change?

[dwade247]

The one thing I never understood about strengthening the loft of GI is that I though the purpose of GI irons was to launch the ball higher. Which they do if the are the same loft as the blades, but now companies just make them stronger lofted and the GI irons launch at nearly the same angle as the blades. For some people its even less, but for some I will admit it is more.

Although I don't enjoy what the companies are doing, it is on the customer to educate themselves about what they are buying. Just by the lofts you want and can hit well. If you like swinging a club that has a 7 on the bottom better than a 6 even though the lofts are the same then go for it. Mistakes are made when I play thinks that since the irons are GI they will help him/her hit that 4 iron easier. When in fact they don't because the GI 4 iron is 2-3* stronger and designed to launch at the same angle as the blade 4 iron.  However if the player decides to leave the 4 iron out and have the 5 iron be their longest iron, then they have made a smart decision and will be able to hit their 23-25* club since the GI properties will help get the ball up.

If everyone followed Wishon's 28"/24* iron rule then GI irons would be great for that person.

[WUTiger]

The one thing I never understood about strengthening the loft of GI is that I though the purpose of GI irons was to launch the ball higher. Which they do if the are the same loft as the blades, but now companies just make them stronger lofted and the GI irons launch at nearly the same angle as the blades. For some people its even less, but for some I will admit it is more.

A bit of history on how we got here:

In the late 1970s, Ping developed perimeter weighting for golf irons. Perimeter weighting really got the ball up in the air better than conventional irons of the time.  The drawback, however, was a loss of distance. So that the Ping irons wouldn't be seen as short hitters, the designers strengthened the loft by two degrees to retain status-quo distances.

This worked fine until golfdom's marketing idiots hijacked the idea, and we have the two-decade distance "arms race" with ever-stronger lofts. From comments on various technical blogs, it seems the "stronger lofts" have pretty well topped out.

As far as Players, GI and SGI irons, loft is only one factor in how high the ball is launched. You also have the overall design of the clubhead - such as location of Vertical Center of Gravity (VCOG), face flexing, etc. And, don't forget the other half of the golf club - the shaft. Shaft flex, weight and kickpoint all influence distance and launch angle.

Last year Golf Digest interviewed some club designers on why the average golfer hits GI irons higher and longer than Players irons. They emphasized the internal clubhead design as critical in the higher launch despite stronger lofts.

That said, we're not even getting into individual differences in golf swings. See this Mizuno link for swing variables measured in fittings:

http://www.mizunousa.com/golf/custom-irons

[SavvySwede]

Just saw this in another thread.

http://www.benhogangolf.com/ft-worth-15

Apparently you can choose your sets loft makeup with the new Hogan irons and wedges. The irons go from 20* to 63* in the wedges in 1* increments.

[dwade247]

Just saw this in another thread.

http://www.benhogangolf.com/ft-worth-15

Apparently you can choose your sets loft makeup with the new Hogan irons and wedges. The irons go from 20* to 63* in the wedges in 1* increments.

Yeah I've seen those and I love almost everything about what they are doing with those. Just not sure about the v-sole and not a fan of the price tag. :/

[BeCu]

Yeah I've seen those and I love almost everything about what they are doing with those. Just not sure about the v-sole and not a fan of the price tag. :/

Would like to share my experience/thoughts. I have played SCOR wedge with v-sole. IMO, the real deal. To be honest I am a wedge junkie and play many, too many brands new/old regardless of whether they truly fit my swing. I love wedges and have confidence with that type club (wish the rest of my clubs would take notice :).

The v-sole/higher sole angle design did minimize the depth of my divots somewhat (wedge fitting says I am a digger). I would/should have kept playing that wedge but I prefer a classic blade type wedge design (the Scor wedge did not visually suit my eye). The new Hogan wedges appear classic and I really want to see one up close. After playing Scor, not worried about that v-sole.

IMO its nice that the potential to properly gap the iron lofts exist in this brand. These club loft options makes me feel better knowing one of my key fitting concerns is easily accounted for up front and that makes it easier to justify the cost.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavvySwede

Just saw this in another thread.

http://www.benhogangolf.com/ft-worth-15

Apparently you can choose your sets loft makeup with the new Hogan irons and wedges. The irons go from 20* to 63* in the wedges in 1* increments.

Yeah I've seen those and I love almost everything about what they are doing with those. Just not sure about the v-sole and not a fan of the price tag. :/

What are they selling for? I haven't heard anything about pricing yet.

[alleztom]

One question here, sorry if it seems ignorant as I'm new here. Distance 'arms race' aside, I agree with what has been said there but I make this point independently of that one, doesn't it make sense to decrease the gap between lower lofted clubs because of the roll you get on the ball? a 8i and 9i will fly (if hit well) at a higher trajectory (and therefore land softer and roll out less) than a 4i and 5i, I assume at an increasing rate. So a 3i will roll more than a 4i will roll more than a 5i etc (no matter the lofts), so if you want 'x' yards gap between each club's total (rather than carry) distance then you should have a smaller gap between higher lofted clubs?

[dwade247]

Would like to share my experience/thoughts. I have played SCOR wedge with v-sole. IMO, the real deal. To be honest I am a wedge junkie and play many, too many brands new/old regardless of whether they truly fit my swing. I love wedges and have confidence with that type club (wish the rest of my clubs would take notice :).

The v-sole/higher sole angle design did minimize the depth of my divots somewhat (wedge fitting says I am a digger). I would/should have kept playing that wedge but I prefer a classic blade type wedge design (the Scor wedge did not visually suit my eye). The new Hogan wedges appear classic and I really want to see one up close. After playing Scor, not worried about that v-sole.

IMO its nice that the potential to properly gap the iron lofts exist in this brand. These club loft options makes me feel better knowing one of my key fitting concerns is easily accounted for up front and that makes it easier to justify the cost.

Thanks for your thoughts on the v-sole. I have been looking at the SCOR wedges and think that they feel great. I also like how the mass is distributed well from the bottom to the top of the club to help get consistent distance if I hit it hight on the face when I'm in the deep rough. That is a brutal distance killer with traditional wedges. Can you tell me about how the v-sole performed in the sand? Does the bounce increase if you lay them open? Did you ever feel there was too much bounce on the leading edge on tight lies?

Here is a little more on the new Hogans. You can also follow the link on the page to the hogan website. http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/article7697279.html

Says price will be about $150 for steel shafts. Clubs will only be sold to approved custom fitters. (Great idea IMO, but could be a pain if there aren't any local fitters for some)

ALLEZTOM - You are right about the roll out being more on a 4 or 5 iron, but i'm more concerned about my carry distance gaps. I would rather know how far I carry each iron and then just think about the rollout and either accept that it will roll off the back or if I can do something to stop it sooner. For example, if a hazard is in front of the green, and the carry is 185 It doesn't do me much good to have the option between my 6i at 170 carry +5 yards roll, 5i at 175 carry +8yards roll, and the 4i at 180 + 10 yards roll. I really want to choose from 6i at 170 carry, 5i at 180 carry, 4i at 190 carry. Then I just decide whether or not I think the 4 will roll of the back and if I can deal with that. (However, with my game I should probably lay up ha)

[Dave2512]

Seems like everyone offers a beveled sole and the diiference between a PW and a 4i should just be the angle of descent. People may struggle to hit longer clubs but better players have a consistent apex through the set.

[BeCu]

Thanks for your thoughts on the v-sole. I have been looking at the SCOR wedges and think that they feel great. I also like how the mass is distributed well from the bottom to the top of the club to help get consistent distance if I hit it hight on the face when I'm in the deep rough. That is a brutal distance killer with traditional wedges. Can you tell me about how the v-sole performed in the sand? Does the bounce increase if you lay them open? Did you ever feel there was too much bounce on the leading edge on tight lies?

Here is a little more on the new Hogans. You can also follow the link on the page to the hogan website. http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/article7697279.html

Says price will be about $150 for steel shafts. Clubs will only be sold to approved custom fitters. (Great idea IMO, but could be a pain if there aren't any local fitters for some)

ALLEZTOM - You are right about the roll out being more on a 4 or 5 iron, but i'm more concerned about my carry distance gaps. I would rather know how far I carry each iron and then just think about the rollout and either accept that it will roll off the back or if I can do something to stop it sooner. For example, if a hazard is in front of the green, and the carry is 185 It doesn't do me much good to have the option between my 6i at 170 carry +5 yards roll, 5i at 175 carry +8yards roll, and the 4i at 180 + 10 yards roll. I really want to choose from 6i at 170 carry, 5i at 180 carry, 4i at 190 carry. Then I just decide whether or not I think the 4 will roll of the back and if I can deal with that. (However, with my game I should probably lay up ha)

I played the 55 deg wedge. The sand play with this wedge was above average for me, I had no trouble getting out of sand (wet/firm and dry normal textures). My sand shots were not overly complicated or let me say I did not have to lay open the face wide or anything like that. I did open it wide for a few fairway shots to a "tucked pin" and had no issues with bounce.

Yes the leading edge did appear a little high when I opened it wide but not so with normal shot set up. Note I had no "skulled" shots but I was overly cautious due to the design not looking like what I am use to (classic tear drop shape).

I share your thoughts regarding high grass/rough shots. With that stated I am planning on acquiring a 49 deg and 53 deg to test/compare to my current PW & AW.

[dwade247]

Thanks for the info BeCU