KBS Shafts for Wedges

[Long Ball Larry]

I am unfamiliar with KBS and just ordered a set of irons with the Tour shafts. For my two wedges, would I be better off getting the (1) 37.5-inch Iron shafts (i.e., the same the irons) or (2) 37-inch Wedge shafts (my irons are standard length)? According to the KBS website, the Wedge shafts are "developed for players seeking a similar feel to the KBS TOUR." I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference, but just wanted to see if someone more knowledgeable had any thoughts. Thanks in advance.

[BeCu]

I am unfamiliar with KBS and just ordered a set of irons with the Tour shafts. For my two wedges, would I be better off getting the (1) 37.5-inch Iron shafts (i.e., the same the irons) or (2) 37-inch Wedge shafts (my irons are standard length)? According to the KBS website, the Wedge shafts are "developed for players seeking a similar feel to the KBS TOUR." I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference, but just wanted to see if someone more knowledgeable had any thoughts. Thanks in advance.

I love the KBS brand of shafts that I fit to. Regarding wedges, I play a the HI-Rev 1st generation model in a 55 deg SW & 62 degree LW. I don't get overly high shots as I originally thought I would so that was good. The real positive for me was the feel, very smooth. Regarding spin, well I don't back the ball up like I would desire, but I do get the one/two hop and stop consistently.

[trickyputt]

Always match the iron shafts unless you know what you want or you can never learn to seperate the subtle differences important to you because wedge shafts typically come as unrelently stiff compared to irons so that you max spin.

[billchao]

Always match the iron shafts unless you know what you want or you can never learn to seperate the subtle differences important to you because wedge shafts typically come as unrelently stiff compared to irons so that you max spin.

I always thought wedge shafts typically come slightly softer than stiff shafts you get in irons because the softness helps with feel on partial shots, which the wedges are primarily used for. Stiffer shafts should launch lower with less spin than softer shafts.

[trickyputt]

[quote name="trickyputt" url="/t/79518/kbs-shafts-for-wedges#post_1098319"]Always match the iron shafts unless you know what you want or you can never learn to seperate the subtle differences important to you because wedge shafts typically come as unrelently stiff compared to irons so that you max s[quote name="billchao" url="/t/79518/kbs-shafts-for-wedges#post_1098352"][quote name="trickyputt" url="/t/79518/kbs-shafts-for-wedges#post_1098319"]Always match the iron shafts unless you know what you want or you can never learn to seperate the subtle differences important to you because wedge shafts typically come as unrelently stiff compared to irons so that you max spin.

I always thought wedge shafts typically come slightly softer than stiff shafts you get in irons because the softness helps with feel on partial shots, which the wedges are primarily used for. Stiffer shafts should launch lower with less spin than softer shafts.[/quote]pin.[/quote]I always thought wedge shafts typically come slightly softer than stiff shafts you get in irons because the softness helps with feel on partial shots, which the wedges are primarily used for. Stiffer shafts should launch lower with less spin than softer shafts.[/quote] I have had wedges in KBS reg flex (firm by nature) the usual s400, some R400, x100 and multi oem shafts that I dont know. While I love the feel of the regular flex, wedges do have a head that by design causes trouble with a softer shaft. Because the head is both heavier and wider, ostensibly to allow opening, it is at the same time then more torquey than some irons as its toe is further away from the shaft and 1 gram of weight then has more effect in the measurement of force of mm/grams. This can effectly increase horizontal dispersion depending on the torque value and flex of a shaft, especially under any load, heavy sand, dense burmuda. While a no turn or 3/4 swing is used often, the hard part with a softer shaft is then the timing such that the head is not flexed off axis forward by either too early or too late a release, or horizontally twisted with torqueing and flexion. The predictiblity of the stiffer shaft is useful at lower speeds, but "stiff enough" is a good way to wholeview things depending how or if a person hits a full shot. I find the most important aspect for wedge shafts then is actually their length, so that the player has swing predictibility in hand height and rotational points of the swing. The 1/8 inch and 1/4 differences I see are almost cruel in the way they can subtly effect the head path. I have had 66 degree lie heads and 62 degree lie and as usual the swing is the thing. Even with matching shafts, the wedges are cut so short they stiffen considerably. I find that the lower bend point shafts are not really suitable for wedges because of tip trim. High bend shafts are my favorite for wedges using iron shafts. I suspect some mid bend "wedge shafts" are blanks that have an adjusted bend point to allow for this trimming, but I dont know for sure. I just never pursued it that far because I like high bend shafts in my wedges.

[billchao]

While a no turn or 3/4 swing is used often, the hard part with a softer shaft is then the timing such that the head is not flexed off axis forward by either too early or too late a release, or horizontally twisted with torqueing and flexion. The predictiblity of the stiffer shaft is useful at lower speeds, but "stiff enough" is a good way to wholeview things depending how or if a person hits a full shot.

I agree that shaft stiffness in a wedge is dependent on the individual golfer's preference, but I think you have this part backwards. Stiffer shafts are needed to reduce shaft bend on faster swings, not slower ones. That's why faster swingers need stiffer shafts. Partial swings with a wedge are slower so the softness can help with the feel of the club loading properly. Having too stiff a shaft for a partial swing will make the club feel like a board. Try choking down hard on a 3i and make half swings and you'll see what I mean. I'm not talking whippy soft if that's what you're getting at. Wedge shafts aren't even a full step softer than the irons. It's more like s300 to s200 rather than s300 to r300. Your wedge shouldn't be so soft that you're losing control of the head on partial swings, because you'd really lose it on a full swing. I'd love to hear what @WUTiger has to say about this.

[trickyputt]

[quote name="trickyputt" url="/t/79518/kbs-shafts-for-wedges#post_1098379"] While a no turn or 3/4 swing is used often, the hard part with a softer shaft is then the timing such that the head is not flexed off axis forward by either too early or too late a release, or horizontally twisted with torqueing and flexion. The predictiblity of the stiffer shaft is useful at lower speeds, but "stiff enough" is a good way to wholeview things depending how or if a person hits a full shot.

I agree that shaft stiffness in a wedge is dependent on the individual golfer's preference, but I think you have this part backwards. Stiffer shafts are needed to reduce shaft bend on faster swings, not slower ones. That's why faster swingers need stiffer shafts. Partial swings with a wedge are slower so the softness can help with the feel of the club loading properly. Having too stiff a shaft for a partial swing will make the club feel like a board. Try choking down hard on a 3i and make half swings and you'll see what I mean. I'm not talking whippy soft if that's what you're getting at. Wedge shafts aren't even a full step softer than the irons. It's more like s300 to s200 rather than s300 to r300. Your wedge shouldn't be so soft that you're losing control of the head on partial swings, because you'd really lose it on a full swing. I'd love to hear what @WUTiger has to say about this.[/quote] I was thinking full range softness. I have a book by Travino where he described himself using ladyflex on wedges, which is one of the reasons I was trying regular flex. I have also soft tipped them. But because in my game at that time they were used even more as a general purpose club, the softness that worked great on the shorter side showed up as problem on the longer shot side.

[billchao]

I was thinking full range softness. I have a book by Travino where he described himself using ladyflex on wedges, which is one of the reasons I was trying regular flex. I have also soft tipped them. But because in my game at that time they were used even more as a general purpose club, the softness that worked great on the shorter side showed up as problem on the longer shot side.

Yea, that's probably going too soft with them.

[Dave2512]

The Hi-Rev pairs nicely with the Tour. The WEDGE has a firmer tip and believe you feel it, I use this in my 50 and don't like it compared to the Hi-Rev. They say it is similar to the Tour but I use those as well and the feel is softer.

[jmanbooyaa]

I personally find that any of the KBS shafts offerings in a wedge are a bit to harsh for my swing.

[WUTiger]

I have had wedges in KBS reg flex (firm by nature) the usual s400, some R400, x100 and multi oem shafts that I dont know. While I love the feel of the regular flex, wedges do have a head that by design causes trouble with a softer shaft. Because the head is both heavier and wider, ostensibly to allow opening, it is at the same time then more torquey than some irons as its toe is further away from the shaft and 1 gram of weight then has more effect in the measurement of force of mm/grams. This can effectly increase horizontal dispersion depending on the torque value and flex of a shaft, especially under any load, heavy sand, dense burmuda.

As trickyputt noted, the you get benefits (stability) with a heavier, somewhat stiffer shaft on a wedge. For details, check out the Tom Wishon web site.

KBS wedge-specific offerings include:

1. KBS Tour V - 125 gr. shaft, w/stiff tip for "piercing ball flight"
2. KBS Wedge - which LongBall described
3. KBS 610 appears to split difference between 1 and 2, and 4 and 5.
4. KBS Hi-Rev. - Mid launch, with softer tip for more spin
5. KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 - Same as No. 4

Except for the Tour V (only one flex), these shafts all come in R, S and S+/XS flexes.

I have test-hit the TM Tour Preferred 56* wedge in the stock KBS Tour V shaft. This is a 125-gr. wedge flex shaft with a stiff tip for "piercing ball flight." Although I have gone down to about 100 grams and R.flex in my iron shafts, this wedge felt pretty lively, and the ball jumped off the face.

I currently play mainly Cleveland CG14 wedges with the old TRAction shafts (Tour Reflex Action, thicker butt to keep ball down, but flexible tip to allow more spin, especially on partial shots.) I also swap in a Callaway XForged (circa 2009) 56/14 with a Wedge Flex (S300 most likely).

Long Ball , on your new irons: If the two wedges you mention in the iron set are PW and AW, you might want to go with the stock KBS Tour, or the KBS wedge. If you hit a lot of full shots with the PW and AW, you would get a common feel throughout. Then, you might go with "knockdown" shafts for your SW and LW. (Would you keep your current Vokeys?)

We had a New Year discussion on this earlier. See below...

[Long Ball Larry]

Long Ball, on your new irons: If the two wedges you mention in the iron set are PW and AW, you might want to go with the stock KBS Tour, or the KBS wedge. If you hit a lot of full shots with the PW and AW, you would get a common feel throughout. Then, you might go with "knockdown" shafts for your SW and LW. (Would you keep your current Vokeys?)

We had a New Year discussion on this earlier. See below...

Thanks all for the responses so far. WUTiger , my iron set (3-PW) already has the KBS Tour shafts. I'm trying to figure out what to do about my two Vokeys (54 and 60). I use the 54 around the green and for full shots. I use the 60 much less often, usually 60 yards and in, and never for full shots. Definitely plan on keeping both.

[WUTiger]

I suspect that a High-Rev or the KBS 610 might be the best shaft for your 60* Lob.

For the SW, it depends on what you want out of it.

• Knockdown, one-hop shots on partials: KBS Tour V.
• Extra spin on your partials: Hi-Rev.
• Balance: Either KBS 610 or the KBS Wedge.

Any chance you can try out some of these at a demo day? Vokey offers several KBS shafts for custom fits.