My Swing (Matt66)

[Matt66]

I've been Playing Golf for: 6 Months*

My current handicap index or average score is: 98 - 108

My typical ball flight is: Irons - Typically solid straight or slight draw but with fatigue this can become a steep swung slice....Drivers & Woods - Almost always a fade/slice, but occasionally when the planets align a straight to slight draw can occur

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: With the driver/headed clubs - The infamous wild slice, seriously  I fell like I can hit the ball backwards sometimes! With the Irons - Lack of consistency, I can start solidly but all of a sudden I may hit thin, fat, hooked, sliced shots....

A little extra about me: So I have been plucking the courage up to post in here over the last month or so, I have contributed elsewhere with queries etc. that are relative to my game. Since last June I have avidly attempted to play golf, had my last summer off before full time work and went mental playing at least twice a week, to begin it was just with the very basic technique acquired from my dad, friends & a summer course my granddad sent me on when I was about 10! From September onwards I've attempted to learn more about technique and have been hooked on various YouTube channels to coincide going to the range/playing at least once a week.

I play regularly with a friend who shots between 80-85 so there is a stark contrast in our play, last time I was out on the course before xmas I hit my best round of 98 & finally felt like I had started to get there, unfortunately the British weather hasn't been too forgiving recently so haven't hit the course this year yet, I have however recorded myself from about 2 weeks ago down the range hitting my new 3 wood & a wedge (which just happened to be the best I've ever felt like I hit the ball!)

I have a solid grounding in majority of sports but have played cricket for a number of years, it was obvious when I first started playing how different golf really was to the red ball game a lesson that took me a while to learn that I actually needed to rotate my body! This issue creeps into my game more so with high irons but especially the driver, which I lack any consistency whatsoever when hitting, I tend to be on a bad day a wild slicer. I had thought I had fixed this but then started topping or skying my driver (it has taken some damage in 6 months believe me!).  My driving can cost me anywhere between 4-8 shots a round and a bucket load in lost balls!

Technically, part of the problem I can tell is an outside of plane takeaway (something I've worked on) but particularly a pretty steep downswing (attributed to cricket where a lovely straight drive would normally take place) and partly a lack of rotation & face closing. With irons these seem to be my greatest improvement I can regularly hit an aesthetically pleasing draw with most irons & more and more solid contact, however this can sometimes go out of the window on the course, something I put down to fatigue but also an issue in repeating the correct set up ( I could also moan about my ebay special SGI Wilson irons that don't exactly fit perfect to my 6'3 frame but I wanna attempt to hit regularly in the 90's before I go for a club fitting & new set).

I apologise for rambling on but thought I'd try and give everyone the best insight into my game and issues over the last 6 months, I definitely have the bug and just want to improve week on week, & where else will I get such great information for nothing then here! I will try and attempt some videos tonight when I'm down the range but it can prove a challenge getting side on/caddy view videos when your alone and its busy!

Apologies for the not so HD quality of the videos, thats what happens when you trust pals & your brother to do the filming!

---

Videos:

This last video was back in December but I actually managed to hit the driver reasonably well, as I said this is extremely hot & cold!

[Matt66]

Little bit extra.... I  was gifted an RBZ Stage 2 5 wood and it goes like an absolute dream, I couldn't believe what I was seeing when I first used it the only headed club I have true confidence with & decided to invest in a 3 wood as a go between driver and the 5, its a bit more consistent but still not as much as I'd like!

[davechen]

I'm no expert, just a bogie golfer who's watched a long of swings on the net, so take my advice for what it's worth.  But the two things that struck me about your swing is that your left knee gets really bent on the back swing, and I think your wrist needs to be flat on impact.

The knee bend is going to make your head move around, leading to inconsistent contact, I think.  Maybe look at the thread by @mvmac about a Centered Pivot.  Or some of the 5 Simple Key videos about Key #1, the stead head.  Those really helped me.

As far as the wrist goes, I think you're flipping your wrist.  You want your wrist to be flat and your hands ahead of the club at impact.  Try the following drill for that:

[DrvFrShow]

Your three wood DTL view. You don't need to bend your knees that much. It looks like your knees are over your toes. This will lead to balance issues which can lead to the banana ball.

Here's Lexi Thompson - I picked her because unlike the men you can see her knees. They're flexed but not overly bent. FYI, she's 6' 0"

[Matt66]

I'm no expert, just a bogie golfer who's watched a long of swings on the net, so take my advice for what it's worth.  But the two things that struck me about your swing is that your left knee gets really bent on the back swing, and I think your wrist needs to be flat on impact.

The knee bend is going to make your head move around, leading to inconsistent contact, I think.  Maybe look at the thread by @mvmac about a Centered Pivot.  Or some of the 5 Simple Key videos about Key #1, the stead head.  Those really helped me.

As far as the wrist goes, I think you're flipping your wrist.  You want your wrist to be flat and your hands ahead of the club at impact.  Try the following drill for that:

HI @davechen thanks for the response its been a good read.

Your three wood DTL view. You don't need to bend your knees that much. It looks like your knees are over your toes. This will lead to balance issues which can lead to the banana ball.

Here's Lexi Thompson - I picked her because unlike the men you can see her knees. They're flexed but not overly bent. FYI, she's 6' 0"

Hi guys, thanks for the response its been an interesting read & watch!

The knee bend is something that has been in my game from the start, its something I am conscious about & I attempt to address when practicing, I'm not sure if this is me being a mixture of lazy & fatigued (these videos were recorded toward the end of my practice), but the knee definitely creeps in as I go around the course that's for sure. As I said I was practicing last night & tried working on this, with irons I was pretty solid all night but when I moved onto the daddy clubs things changed! (this could also be more then likely down to a lack of practice in about 2 weeks however.).

Having watched the video of Lexi Thomson (wouldn't mind being half as good as she is) & subsequently a few more about knees and set up, I have seemed to be over compensating possibly subconsciously something I do as I feel to tall, I would say that I am more set on my heels with a tall chest then on the balls of my feet. I had previously posted about head position & also read on this forum about set up and head over the ball (I believe it was Adam Scott related) which I've been working on but I have no doubt my crazy left leg affects my head position thus leading to an array of contact issues.

The second point that you noted about flipping the hands had never occurred to me, again after reading & watching what was posted I've been away to look at this & it would occur to be the biggest challenge for me. I'm not sure if this has crept in where I am trying hard to square my club face up through impact, especially with the driver & woods for fear of slicing the ball, and this I would guess is why more recently I have been popping & skying the ball as my biggest impact issue with these clubs.

I must ask that, although I kind of understand how this needs to be rectified, I'm fearful that by 'holding the lag' or practicing on keeping the wrist flatter may lead to the dreaded slice again? I guess I want to make sure that my swing itself isn't the single biggest cause in slicing? I'm not looking for a magical quick fix and I can often hit a nice fade 260+ which is where either luck or everything works correctly, jeez I'd take that right now but, consistency is the biggest issue for me.

I had a quick Google of the issue & come across this article, now of the 2 although I could put myself in both brackets is it fair to assume I would be more of a 'Late Flipper'?

http://www.golfwrx.com/101874/the-causes-of-flipping-revealed-spoiler-adding-lag-is-not-the-fix/

I have some videos from last night that I will try and get up in the next few hours (there's only so much skiving from work I can do!) these will hopefully show the best & worst of my swing & some of the drills I have been doing to work on my game.

Lastly, thanks again for the feedback & if I appear a bit vague in my reply Its more down to a lack of knowledge, but my curiosity & will to improve is very much not lacking!

[Matt66]

As promised some videos shot of my hit down the range last night, Initially I worked on keeping that left leg straighter but as I worked through my session I became more fatigued an these were shot toward the end where my left leg movement comes back in!

After about 3 weeks away I had a terrible time with the driver & 3 wood, you can see from the first video my typical ball flight issue with the driver, a massive skyer! From there some of the shots improve but consistency is basically non existent. There is a couple ok shots in there, but I'd want to make that the norm.

There are also videos of me hitting my 5 wood from the deck a club I was creaming at that back fence last night, note the drill I have started doing to try and avoid myself slicing the ball and swinging from the outside by lining up another ball about half a club head away (although I do hit it twice ). The second thing I do is use my putter to try and help me align the ball up better in the correct position.

Again bear in mind these were taken before I had really considered what was written yesterday, hopefully I can work on these at some point this week.

Also, just a heads up you may want to turn your computer down, I was at a Top Golf literally right underneath the speaker so I apologise for the pumping electro pop!

Thanks again,

Matt

[mvmac]

Hi Matt,

I think the left knee movement is just a reaction to how far inside the club is loading. You can see from this pic, it's well inside your hands and I feel that "pulls" your left knee in.

Two things I would recommend you do.

- Turn your left foot out 25-30 degrees, will limit the amount the left knee can rotate inward. Will also help you transfer more weight forward. This will help your path be more OUTward or less INward.

- Check your grip. Looks like the grip is in the palm of the left hand, get it more in the fingers with the heel pad on top. That will encourage the wrists to hinge and get the clubhead to load "up" more on the takeaway.

[Matt66]

Hi Matt,

I think the left knee movement is just a reaction to how far inside the club is loading. You can see from this pic, it's well inside your hands and I feel that "pulls" your left knee in.

Two things I would recommend you do.

- Turn your left foot out 25-30 degrees, will limit the amount the left knee can rotate inward. Will also help you transfer more weight forward. This will help your path be more OUTward or less INward.

- Check your grip. Looks like the grip is in the palm of the left hand, get it more in the fingers with the heel pad on top. That will encourage the wrists to hinge and get the clubhead to load "up" more on the takeaway.

Can I just say again another thanks to @mvmac since checking out what should be world famous threads on how to stop slicing & how to draw not only have I been able to it the woods again I actually have found the confidence again & for once seeing the draw!

Along with other things I have consciously been trying to get on top of (such as the moving club inside, shallow backswing, shoulder/.hip alignment...) the flaring of the feet & axis tilt have really been a massive help.

Went out last 2 nights after seeing these comments & the link and again can honestly say my left hand grip was something I had never thought was an issue but upon discovery it was, worked on this and although strange at first (expected) it was definitely more solid, cant believe I hadn't foreseen this earlier!

I attempted to get some recordings last night, however my camera died literally the minute I took my address.

Hopefully if the weather holds out this weekend over in blighty, I plan on getting a round in on sunday, I will endeavour to post an update of my swing at some point over the weekend.

Thanks again,

Matt

[mvmac]

Can I just say again another thanks to @mvmac since checking out what should be world famous threads on how to stop slicing & how to draw not only have I been able to it the woods again I actually have found the confidence again & for once seeing the draw!

[Matt66]

Update on my swing following the help from Mike, the forum & relentless amounts of reading//watching.

Amongst other things I have also been working on my flatter plane swing trying to get everything a tad taller, whilst not going back to old habits.

After playing for the first time this year sunday & a few more range sessions, I guess there has been an update:

My typical ball flight is: Irons - Have started seeing a nice push draw, but at times it is a straight push to the right (see video for brilliant examples of the 2 types of shot).... Drivers & Woods - Much improved, hitting pretty straight solid contact & nice shape both ways when I want (I actually hit fairways sunday )

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Irons - Contact is great when struck well, however I feel like the 'Fat' has crept in a lot at times, since the slight changes (which I accept is part of the change process, but perhaps there is a way to rectify) With the driver/headed clubs - The push also here at times too, if anything my aim/alignment is my biggest fail at the minute with these.

I have posted below a video of me down the line & face on with a 6 iron, as well as a down the line with me & driver (couldn't get a face on unfortunately) 6 Iron video brilliantly shows the 2 types of shots I've been seeing, solid contact but 1st shot a push second shot push draw.

6 Iron DTL, Feb 15

6 Iron Face on, Feb 15

Driver DTL, Feb 15

Thanks again all, hope you can help!

[mvmac]

Takeaway looks a lot better from dtl. I would just make sure the left foot is turned out enough, about 30 degrees. This will reduce the amount the left knee moves back,  keep your hips more centered (they tend to shift back to the right) and help the knee transfer more forward on the downswing, all this will lead to better shots.

[Matt66]

@mvmac Been a couple times since Wednesday, really concentrating on that foot flare, I think It comes hard as obviously the change feels exaggerated. As you said for the hips, I think that may have something to do with my 'Fat' shots, as I have gotten the feeling of Bottoming out the club early, possibly due to this sway.

Something I've been wondering & looking at some of my DTL videos, is the club face at the top of the backswing, it occurs to be rather open (so the toe isn't facing the ground, shaft isn't particularly parallel) I wondered whether this could be why I'm getting the 'push', I know that my club path has improved so have kind of put it down to this!

Again try and get a few updates up when I can, for the mean time I have a couple of screen grabs of me at the top of backswing, to illustrate the point I was trying to make.

[mvmac]

Something I've been wondering & looking at some of my DTL videos, is the club face at the top of the backswing, it occurs to be rather open (so the toe isn't facing the ground, shaft isn't particularly parallel) I wondered whether this could be why I'm getting the 'push', I know that my club path has improved so have kind of put it down to this!

Not sure what you're seeing with the face being open at the top of the backswing. Looks pretty good to me. The face pretty much matches the left arm. If anything your face is slightly "closed".

[Matt66]

Not sure what you're seeing with the face being open at the top of the backswing. Looks pretty good to me. The face pretty much matches the left arm. If anything your face is slightly "closed".

Ok perhaps exposing some of my lack of knowledge there

But I was of the impression that the toe of the club should be facing the ground?! If im completely wrong I shall shut up and never worry again, lol (who am I kidding)

Thanks again Mike, might make a golfer out of this guy one day!

[iacas]

But I was of the impression that the toe of the club should be facing the ground?! If im completely wrong I shall shut up and never worry again, lol (who am I kidding)

Toe down would be fairly "open" but… well, just look:

[saevel25]

Ok perhaps exposing some of my lack of knowledge there

But I was of the impression that the toe of the club should be facing the ground?! If im completely wrong I shall shut up and never worry again, lol (who am I kidding)

Thanks again Mike, might make a golfer out of this guy one day!

Depends on grip, how you have the club at set up (open, closed, square), how your backswing is.

To me it just looks like you overswing just a tad and the club is pointing right at the top so it is skewing the view of the clubface from that camera angle. I think it is pretty close to square at the top.

Just my two cents.

[Matt66]

Hey Guys, Thanks for all the help & continued support!

Monday night is Sand Trap practice night, so hopefully I can get some updated videos later on face on & DTL.

I think what I was babbling on about Friday was me overthinking everything, I'm gonna focus on that Left Leg/Knee & takeaway hopefully you'll notice better consistency before anything else.

The other main bug I have at the minute is the fat, either I'm noticing it more now or it has become more prevalent, this could be down to the changes but I wondered if there was anything obvious with my swing that makes this occur, Mike mentioned my hips shifting back to the right, again I'll bare this in mind and see how I get on!

[Matt66]

So interesting update, after all the advice from last week and the points I noted yesterday.

The video of me in the red is from last week, I would say its me focusing on being a little taller in the backswing and straighter takeway, not as flat as I was in some of my original post's.... HOWEVER...

I have felt as though this has led to a few more contact issues, I'm not sure if its because of the feeling of being steeper or I genuinely am being steeper, perhaps you guys could clear this up? I have definitely started pushing the ball right and slicing more then I have been in recent weeks from the back of this though (see confused comments from Friday as proof of my confusion!)

The second videos from yesterday of me in black, is me hitting the ball well (5 iron pings as you can hear!) but was after I practiced the feeling of being quite shallow in my swing (I hit about 3 balls with an exaggerated shallow swing then went back to my 'normal' set up). So although I was happy with the resulting shot there was definitely a different 'feeling'.

So my query is, what am I best of going with?