Why is Tiger's Short Game so Bad? Does he Have the Yips?

[Jakester23]

Maybe, but I still think it is mainly technique issues made worse by what is going on in his head. Fix the technique, you fix the mental issues.

I'd say it's improper technique that creates the mental problem. When your not sure about your technique doubt creeps in so you won't fully commit to the shot.

[MrFlipper]

I'd say it's improper technique that creates the mental problem. When your not sure about your technique doubt creeps in so you won't fully commit to the shot.

I dunno if its improper technique. You can yip with perfect technique. If the yips is a spasm with the trail hand, maybe all you can do is change the technique, like Langer with his putting. I doubt anyone would say Langer is weak-minded---

Only seen chipping yips on TV. Anyone else see Tim Clark at the Sony this year? He canned a little chip one day on TV that he hit really poorly, commentators said he had the chipping yips and will do anything he can to avoid chipping and pitching. He chipped with a split grip, it was really ugly. The one he made was a complete yip that he almost double hit. Hard to watch.

[cipher]

I dunno if its improper technique. You can yip with perfect technique. If the yips is a spasm with the trail hand, maybe all you can do is change the technique, like Langer with his putting. I doubt anyone would say Langer is weak-minded--- Only seen chipping yips on TV. Anyone else see Tim Clark at the Sony this year? He canned a little chip one day on TV that he hit really poorly, commentators said he had the chipping yips and will do anything he can to avoid chipping and pitching. He chipped with a split grip, it was really ugly. The one he made was a complete yip that he almost double hit. Hard to watch.

I don't see spasms though. I am not saying that there are none for sure. I do see tension and too much arms down. A backswing that is too steep and not enough pivot doing the work through the ball. See at about 21 seconds. [Video]http://youtu.be/WqJhtZvrKBk[/video]

[MrFlipper]

I don't see spasms though. I am not saying that there are none for sure. I do see tension and too much arms down. A backswing that is too steep and not enough pivot doing the work through the ball.

See at about 21 seconds.

http://youtu.be/WqJhtZvrKBk

Yeah I don't see any spasms either, but I suppose it doesn't take much and wouldn't have to be obvious. But with Tim Clark, it was sure obvious. Man, he just looks like a high handicapper, how can the best in the world get that crappy that fast?  Can't blame crappy play on yips

[cipher]

Yeah I don't see any spasms either, but I suppose it doesn't take much and wouldn't have to be obvious. But with Tim Clark, it was sure obvious. Man, he just looks like a high handicapper, how can the best in the world get that crappy that fast?  Can't blame crappy play on yips :-)

You are right, it may not need to be that obvious. I just think the physical issues are somewhat obvious and he can fix those first, if he gets the right help.

[cipher]

Now apparently tiger can only make short game backswings that are as shallow or as steep as his full swing. #facepalm http://es.pn/1za10iV

[Shorty]

My thought is that a lot of players on this site may be surprised to learn how awful their short games are if they had to chip off closely mown fairways like the pros play.

Especially those who say their "go to" club from inside 70 yards is a 60 degree wedge. Hitting off a spongy cushion of grass is not the same as hitting off what is essentially just like the putting green.  Margins for error are almost zero on those tournament course set ups.

Not saying Tiger doesn't have the chipping yips.

Just saying that those who currently think they could do better may not be able to hit the green from 20 yards with what they think is a great short game from grass like that ;-)

[cipher]

My thought is that a lot of players on this site may be surprised to learn how awful their short games are if they had to chip off closely mown fairways like the pros play. Especially those who say their "go to" club from inside 70 yards is a 60 degree wedge. Hitting off a spongy cushion of grass is not the same as hitting off what is essentially just like the putting green.  Margins for error are almost zero on those tournament course set ups. Not saying Tiger doesn't have the chipping yips. Just saying that those who currently think they could do better may not be able to hit the green from 20 yards with what they think is a great short game from grass like that ;-)

I get what you are saying and pretty much agree with that when it comes to chips. But with the proper pitching technique I don't think it is all that difficult and the way the ball reacts I find is more predictable. I started playing a new course last year that has these areas around most of the greens. I finally put a 60 degree wedge in the bag this past fall(never had one before), and I do find that it glides a little nicer for me on those tight lies, and I am able to pop the ball up in the air a little better. I have seen it cause anxiety for a bunch of guys though and that does not usually end well. :-)

[9iron]

Tiger is missing badly on shots out of the grass too, though, Shorty. I saw him fluff balls out of the short rough at both Hero and Phoenix, which is what could/would happen if Kratzert is correct.

[mvmac]

Do you agree @mvmac ?

I don't know what to think on this topic.

I disagree he has the yips, his technique sucks (pic @cipher posted). Yips to me means some kind of spasm type of motion or strong mental issue. He's not in denial that it needs to get better.

I disagree strongly with Tiger when he talks about the short game and full swing motions being similar. You would not want to hit a 5 iron with your pitching technique

im pretty sure Como can break it down for him.  tigers problems are in his head.

I saw this on Twitter so take it for what it is but people are saying that Chris isn't working with Tiger on his short game. I guess Tiger feels his full swing work will "bleed" into his short shorts.

Maybe, but I still think it is mainly technique issues made worse by what is going on in his head. Fix the technique, you fix the mental issues.

Yep.

I don't see spasms though. I am not saying that there are none for sure. I do see tension and too much arms down. A backswing that is too steep and not enough pivot doing the work through the ball.

No pivot, club face stays shut, no inward loading of the clubhead, no "float loading" of the shaft. Basically a technique designed to dig the leading edge in the ground.

Jim Furyk is the only good pitcher that gets in a similar position but he adds some "play" to the shaft as he transitions so the clubhead can release down to the ball as he pivots, engaging the glide (bounce).

[ztexz]

To me, the most telling thing was when Tiger said that he didn't know where the bottom of the club is when he chips.  I mean, that to me right there says that it's 95% mental.  Tiger is roughly 40,000 light years ahead of me in talent, and even I know where the bottom of the club is with my short game.  I think he's just wandering in a desert wasteland of despair.

[cipher]

Oh boy, shaaaaank. https://vine.co/v/OFrwA3pT9Q6

[billchao]

I'd say it's improper technique that creates the mental problem. When your not sure about your technique doubt creeps in so you won't fully commit to the shot.

Yup, which is why I agree with what @cipher said. Fix the technique, fix the mental problem.

The only thing I'll add is that I think this kind of thing can be hard for a pro to work on and work into their game, because they play so often and their results matter. That's ultimately why I think pros don't overcome the "yips." They need to play well to succeed, but they need to improve their technique to play well. Unfortunately, playing well is highly dependent on them grinding and relying on previous experience, which of course is the poor technique.

Only hacks like me can blade and chunk their short game shots round after round until they finally get the technique down to where it becomes comfortable. If I had been playing golf for a living during that time, I would have gone broke.

I disagree strongly with Tiger when he talks about the short game and full swing motions being similar. You would not want to hit a 5 iron with your pitching technique

I think he's one of those old school people who believe the short game swing is a miniature version of the full swing. It would explain why he thinks his full swing work will bleed into his short game technique.

[LeftRightLeft]

I don't really know the cause, but the yips are real.  The assumption is that it's a form of performance anxiety.  Perhaps like stage fright?  Why would (arguably) the best golfer in the world have stage fright?   However, the physical manifestation (tic?) is real.  Medically, it's known as focal dystonia, which is a neurological dysfunction affecting specific muscles.

A change of technique is often helpful.  Basically, you trick your mind.  That's what Langer has done over the years.  I changed putters and putting techniques all the time, just to hold the demons at bay.  When it spread to all parts of my short-game, it was brutal and I quickly became a 20 handicapper.   I can say I lost my swing over the years, but the truth was it started with twitching on the short putts.  Eventually, the anxiousness builds.  It is embarrassing when a simple task feels next to impossible.  That only exasperates it.   An 18" putt was more terrifying than a sliding downhill 5 footer.  Everybody misses the 5 footer.  Nobody misses 18" putts!  I once had four chip-ins in one round, so I had a proficient short game and a 5 handicap that traveled pretty well.  I came very close to giving up golf, but the time playing with friends and family is too important to me.  But I only played about 6-8 rounds per year.  It still happens occasionally, usually in a best-ball tournament.  I really don't see myself trying to play in an Association Two-Ball anymore.  If I'm playing just for myself, it's pretty rare now, and I can enjoy tournament golf again.

Hank Haney admitted to having a bad case of the driver yips (jerked the club down from the top).  Johnny Miller, Ben Hogan, and Bobby Jones have suffered.  People at the very top of their profession.  Weak minded?  Perhaps, but these people were champions.  Add in major league baseball players, and other athletes who've had focal dystonia.

If it is the yips, it might be very difficult for Tiger to overcome.  He shanked another pitch today on the range at Torrey.  Clearly, his brain is messing up commands to his hands. I would say, don't listen to every damn fool who hasn't experienced this.  They just can't understand.  I had a hard time duplicating the issue in practice, except when I worked on one-handed shots or putts (right hand only).  Then it was twitch city.  I kept putting myself back into uncomfortable positions and re-learned to not worry about outcome (no matter how embarrassing).  I would think that would be tough for a pro, when a big part of his very identity is tied to playing golf.  I gradually improved, but for me leaving a pressure-cooker job alleviated most of my issues on the golf course.  Being true to yourself helps a lot.

My hope for Tiger is that he can figure it out (like him or hate him, he's been the most compelling story in golf, and one of the most compelling in sports, for most of the last 20 years).  Just don't bet the house on him making the cut this week.

[Rick Martin]

Oh boy, shaaaaank.

https://vine.co/v/OFrwA3pT9Q6

looks like Horschel there - who else?

[Rick Martin]

I dunno if its improper technique. You can yip with perfect technique. If the yips is a spasm with the trail hand, maybe all you can do is change the technique, like Langer with his putting. I doubt anyone would say Langer is weak-minded---

Only seen chipping yips on TV. Anyone else see Tim Clark at the Sony this year? He canned a little chip one day on TV that he hit really poorly, commentators said he had the chipping yips and will do anything he can to avoid chipping and pitching. He chipped with a split grip, it was really ugly. The one he made was a complete yip that he almost double hit. Hard to watch.

I think Hunter Mahan yipped the ball during a Ryder/Presidents Cup a few years back  - I've seen him do some odd stuff around the greens over the years.  Sad to see - and you're right -it's a flinch with the trail hand -  very odd to see TW have them since the short game was always a strength, imo........I've always believed that my yips were developed from poor full swing technique - it (yips with chips/wedges) has practically caused me to leave the game in frustration. Haven't played since about June last year or even before that after playing for over 30 yrs.

[cipher]

looks like Horschel there - who else?

Como and not sure on the other two.

[Rick Martin]

My hope for Tiger is that he can figure it out (like him or hate him, he's been the most compelling story in golf, and one of the most compelling in sports, for most of the last 20 years).  Just don't bet the house on him making the cut this week.

I'm actually intrigued in what's going on - that I'll watch coverage just because of this issue - otherwise, I've been staying way from most coverage since last year's PGA Championship.....