All you 5-ish handicappers ..

[GolfLug]

I'm obviously not a 5, @GolfLug, but it seems to me that the mechanical issues you described in scenario A are best solved by B.

Are you asking people if they live with whatever compensations they already make and focus on other aspects of the game to improve scoring as A?

Well, Let me use my personal example to explain. When I visited GE, There were specific changes in the 'picture' that I had to make starting with set up and have specific drills to ingrain the new pic. See below. To me that is very specific an example of B. It may not look like much to some but for me these are HUGE. To me an example of A would be @cipher 's swing (I thought of this thread after I saw his latest swing on his thread and some discussion of how that could take him to scratch). Personally looking at his swing I was honestly at a loss of what else could he change. I think his head stays fairly steady for most of his shots but for him if it is a priority piece then it is not changing the picture but more so maintaining it for more consistent execution (IMO, an example of A)). @cipher , not trying to put words in your mouth but just expressing my thought process as I see it. Appreciating your input greatly.

[Gunther]

Thanks. So are you re-tooling or you have you decided to just live with what you have? Would you mind sharing details if you are re-tooling., i.e., priority piece, etc.?

Tbh, I'm just trying to keep my head above water now. Not playing much so haven't set a goal. Hope to have some time to dedicate this spring and summer because I really have missed playing and feel energized about the game again. For me, it'll be reps, reps, and more reps til I dial it in. Nothing real technical but my swing thoughts of late are: keep head still, behind ball, ground up, 1, 2, 3 tempo, low and slow take-away. When I can do those 4 things consistently, I generally have success.

[cipher]

Well, Let me use my personal example to explain. When I visited GE, There were specific changes in the 'picture' that I had to make starting with set up and have specific drills to ingrain the new pic. See below. To me that is very specific an example of B. It may not look like much to some but for me these are HUGE. To me an example of A would be @cipher's swing (I thought of this thread after I saw his latest swing on his thread and some discussion of how that could take him to scratch). Personally looking at his swing I was honestly at a loss of what else could he change. I think his head stays fairly steady for most of his shots but for him if it is a priority piece then it is not changing the picture but more so maintaining it for more consistent execution (IMO, an example of A)). @cipher, not trying to put words in your mouth but just expressing my thought process as I see it. Appreciating your input greatly.

First, thank you for the kind words.  I think(actually it is what the boss tells me) that "A" for me is at some point keeping an eye on things and as you say learning to consistently execute. The hard part of constantly changing the swing is that is is tough to predict the pattern on the course from day to day.  I am not quite there and not sure how longer that "B" will be worked on.  I spent over a month of last season not able to hit a driver or a 3 wood.  I could not stop hooking the ball with a swing not all that different than the one I have now.  So even though it looks pretty solid there are some issues where the picture is changing a small amount that affects the results in a big way, and then you have to change the picture a bit to correct the poor results again.  I could be one slight regression from going back to that for all I know.  It may look good in a drill swing but not on the course or every time and the key is continuing to work on it until you own it.  Then, I think once you have a pattern that is producing predictable start and curve lines with power, then you can focus on "A" more, learning to score, keeping up with you short game/bunker type feel shots and technique.  It may be hard to tell when this is and for everyone it is probably different.  There are guys with some pretty fugly swings that have tons of talent and can find the ball much better than me.  They can get away with more "A" work.  For those of us without that kind of talent, I think we have to work on"B" longer.

[GolfLug]

First, thank you for the kind words.  I think(actually it is what the boss tells me) that "A" for me is at some point keeping an eye on things and as you say learning to consistently execute. The hard part of constantly changing the swing is that is is tough to predict the pattern on the course from day to day.  I am not quite there and not sure how longer that "B" will be worked on.  I spent over a month of last season not able to hit a driver or a 3 wood.  I could not stop hooking the ball with a swing not all that different than the one I have now.  So even though it looks pretty solid there are some issues where the picture is changing a small amount that affects the results in a big way, and then you have to change the picture a bit to correct the poor results again.  I could be one slight regression from going back to that for all I know.  It may look good in a drill swing but not on the course or every time and the key is continuing to work on it until you own it.  Then, I think once you have a pattern that is producing predictable start and curve lines with power, then you can focus on "A" more, learning to score, keeping up with you short game/bunker type feel shots and technique.  It may be hard to tell when this is and for everyone it is probably different.  There are guys with some pretty fugly swings that have tons of talent and can find the ball much better than me.  They can get away with more "A" work.  For those of us without that kind of talent, I think we have to work on"B" longer.

Nice post! Do you think you your loss of driver/3 wood for the month was attributable (I hope that is a word) to head movement (since you mention that as your priority piece)?

BTW, not buying the short sell on talent. Au contraire, anybody with a day job and limited practice/play getting down to 3-4 hcp strikes to me a talent all of its own.

[iacas]

First, thank you for the kind words.  I think(actually it is what the boss tells me) that "A" for me is at some point keeping an eye on things and as you say learning to consistently execute. The hard part of constantly changing the swing is that is is tough to predict the pattern on the course from day to day.  I am not quite there and not sure how longer that "B" will be worked on.  I spent over a month of last season not able to hit a driver or a 3 wood.  I could not stop hooking the ball with a swing not all that different than the one I have now.  So even though it looks pretty solid there are some issues where the picture is changing a small amount that affects the results in a big way, and then you have to change the picture a bit to correct the poor results again.  I could be one slight regression from going back to that for all I know.  It may look good in a drill swing but not on the course or every time and the key is continuing to work on it until you own it.  Then, I think once you have a pattern that is producing predictable start and curve lines with power, then you can focus on "A" more, learning to score, keeping up with you short game/bunker type feel shots and technique.  It may be hard to tell when this is and for everyone it is probably different.  There are guys with some pretty fugly swings that have tons of talent and can find the ball much better than me.  They can get away with more "A" work.  For those of us without that kind of talent, I think we have to work on"B" longer.

I think you kind of hit on the true nature of golf, at almost every level, right there…

Golfers should do "A" when their swing is "good enough" or they need to score right now or in a few weeks. For example, you don't do "B" when you have the biggest tournament of the year two weeks away.

B should be done in small doses, and almost continuously, when you want to improve, at almost every/any level.

[cipher]

Nice post! Do you think you your loss of driver/3 wood for the month was attributable (I hope that is a word) to head movement (since you mention that as your priority piece)?

BTW, not buying the short sell on talent. Au contraire, anybody with a day job and limited practice/play getting down to 3-4 hcp strikes to me a talent all of its own.

Partly, but it was more contributed to my backswing I would say.  If you start down at the ball with a shut clubface from a position that is too far inside and do it much too steeply, there will be big problems.  Erik and Mike corrected that out in Erie late last year and unless I get stupid it should not be a issue from now on.  The head stuff is more about consistency at this point.  It is really key#1 stuff to help key#5.   I won't speak to whatever talent I do or don't have.  I am fine with however anyone wants to view that.  But I do need work my butt off in the summer to try and supplement whatever talent I do have.  I generally hit the range many days during lunch, and I get up about 4:45am on weekdays to get nine in on the course starting at 5:30am.

I think you kind of hit on the true nature of golf, at almost every level, right there…

Golfers should do "A" when their swing is "good enough" or they need to score right now or in a few weeks. For example, you don't do "B" when you have the biggest tournament of the year two weeks away.

B should be done in small doses, and almost continuously, when you want to improve, at almost every/any level.

Thanks, and great points.

[Smilesy]

I get what you are saying but, I don't really agree with it.  It might be partly mental but should not even close to all mental as you mentioned. I think that is just something that is easy to say when we cannot identify what the source of the problem really is. Why did you get tight? Yeah you were probably thinking about not screwing up.  But why?  I have done the same thing in a tournament.  And it was not a mental issue.  Even though I told myself that.  The truth is my swing did not hold up.  I was not consistent enough to hit a bunch of fairways and greens for 18 holes.  Subconsciously I knew that, even though I wanted to tell myself something different.  I think you have to own your pattern and when you develop a pattern that you can trust to hit a bunch of greens and nGIR(Lowest Score Wins) the mental problems are lessened and should not be an issue for most of us.  Unless we are in need of an psychological intervention.

I see what you've saying about trusting the swing.  I almost have two modes, free swing when I'm not tight which I think is easily good enough to get to scratch, then I have my tight nervous swing which is terrible. I guess you can look at it too ways, you need build a swing that works when you are really tight, or that the swing is fine, but you need to be able to stay loose. I lean towards the latter and think I need to work on staying loose rather than reworking the swing again.