Counterfeit Vokey wedges

[noob]

Had a very late round on a Saturday and finishing when it was dark, I left my 09 SM wedge on the 18th green and it never found its way back... So time for new wedges I thought. I've always thought ebay UK is all up and up so I bid and won 3 SM5 vokey wedges for about $320 shipped. This price is good but not the too good to be true good, is it!? Turns out they are counterfeit... :(

Here are some pictures so you can compare to yours and maybe next time ask the seller to take pictures like these so that you can verify what you're buying...

I'll proceed to request a full refund according to ebay counterfeit policy, but until that's sorted I'm some money down. The only positive thing about this is that I just had a back injury so I won't be able to play golf for 1-2 weeks so not able to hit these doesn't bother me too much!

Can you tell the difference here? besides the colour? These aren't the white/silver ones, they're supposed to be golden but only have a light gold colour.

The shaft was what caught my eyes. The material aren't as smooth as any of my other clubs. You can also notice the label isn't very nicely printed.

This is just transportation scrub marks, but the ferrule isn't smooth and doesn't look nice either.

The engraving looks like it's engraved by hand using a drill. The ferrule attachment to the hosel raises some alarms too.

Other than these if you look at the Vokey Design engraving, the Titlelist engraving and colours.. they all really look the part. :( I'm sure more inexperienced golfers will definitely fall for these, which is kinda sad.

[Abu3baid]

I'm sorry to hear about this.. I hope everything works out and you get your real clubs soon!

[Shindig]

Have you alerted Titleist? Among other things, be sure to retain the seller's identifying information. At least in the states, many OEMs will replace counterfeit products with legitimate ones in exchange for such information.

[DrvFrShow]

eBay through PayPal? You're covered. File a dispute with PayPal and e-Bay. Get verification from Titleist that they're counterfeit. If they are, you'll get your money back without any problem.

[rkim291968]

Noob,

Did you buy from a reputable EBay seller who sold over thousands of golf items with 99+ % positive rating, and shipping from US or UK?     Can you share what was the seller's profile, reputation, etc. ?

[noob]

I bought from a private seller with not so many feedback. I saw that he did sell a few sets of Vokeys with good feedback though. But now I think those buyers didn't really know their clubs... :(

The items were shipped from the UK (Nottingham to London) and it wasn't dirt cheap so there wasn't any red flags for me.

For comparisons, I paid £205 for 3 clubs and these can be had for £70 each from a seller established in 2002 with tens of thousands of ratings (99.8% positive)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Titleist-SM5-Vokey-Raw-Black-Wedge-58-8-M-Grind-gb111-/111613276935?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash;=item19fcab7307

Wasn't expecting to get a too good to be true deal, just my luck I guess :'(

[rkim291968]

  noob said:

I bought from a private seller with not so many feedback. I saw that he did sell a few sets of Vokeys with good feedback though. But now I think those buyers didn't really know their clubs... :(

The items were shipped from the UK (Nottingham to London) and it wasn't dirt cheap so there wasn't any red flags for me.

For comparisons, I paid £205 for 3 clubs and these can be had for £70 each from a seller established in 2002 with tens of thousands of ratings (99.8% positive)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Titleist-SM5-Vokey-Raw-Black-Wedge-58-8-M-Grind-gb111-/111613276935?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash;=item19fcab7307

Wasn't expecting to get a too good to be true deal, just my luck I guess :'(

Thanks for the update - it helps.   IMO (and have done it before), it makes sense to pay a few bucks more to go with an established on-line EBay seller with 99.8% positive feedback with 10000+ reviews.

[noob]

But after this I doubt the big seller's £67 SM5 wedges too... they're very good prices and the feedbacks are not all golf so you can't be sure that the buyers all know what they bought... My seller also had positive feedbacks on her the clubs she sold as well. :-/ I've been looking at Vokey.com's WedgeWorks... :'( So tempting to order those and pick them up next time I visit family in the States but wedge plus Snow package is $220 per club hehe :'(

USA is still golf equipment heaven!!!

Next question: ebay says that we shouldn't be shipping counterfeit items back to seller (http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html under "counterfeit items"). But advise to sort things out with seller first (http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/counterfeits.html). Now the seller is asking to return the clubs for a full refund. What should I do?

[Shindig]

  noob said:

Next question: ebay says that we shouldn't be shipping counterfeit items back to seller ([URL=http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html]http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html[/URL] under "counterfeit items"). But advise to sort things out with seller first ([URL=http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/counterfeits.html]http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/counterfeits.html[/URL]). Now the seller is asking to return the clubs for a full refund. What should I do?

You should inform the seller that ebay tells you (via the link you included) to NOT return counterfeit clubs to him and that you will be filing a dispute. Then file the dispute. DO NOT, under any conditions, return the clubs to him unless you are convinced they are genuine. DO NOT, under any conditions, make threats -- saying, for example, that you won't report it if you're given a prompt refund. That would be blackmail and is illegal in the U.S. [i]and likely in the U.K. also[/i]. It would also be enabling this person to continue selling illegal product. Then inform Titleist, regardless of refund status. Then inform the police, although Titleist might do this for you. Do your part to not only get your money back (above), but to stop this person from scamming others.

[Judah Ben-Hur]

  noob said:

Had a very late round on a Saturday and finishing when it was dark, I left my 09 SM wedge on the 18th green and it never found its way back... So time for new wedges I thought. I've always thought ebay UK is all up and up so I bid and won 3 SM5 vokey wedges for about $320 shipped. This price is good but not the too good to be true good, is it!? Turns out they are counterfeit... :(

Here are some pictures so you can compare to yours and maybe next time ask the seller to take pictures like these so that you can verify what you're buying...

I'll proceed to request a full refund according to ebay counterfeit policy, but until that's sorted I'm some money down. The only positive thing about this is that I just had a back injury so I won't be able to play golf for 1-2 weeks so not able to hit these doesn't bother me too much!

The shaft was what caught my eyes. The material aren't as smooth as any of my other clubs. You can also notice the label isn't very nicely printed.

The engraving looks like it's engraved by hand using a drill. The ferrule attachment to the hosel raises some alarms too.

Other than these if you look at the Vokey Design engraving, the Titlelist engraving and colours.. they all really look the part. :( I'm sure more inexperienced golfers will definitely fall for these, which is kinda sad.

First off, sorry to hear about this and all the related legwork you will be doing to hopefully get it corrected.  It is pretty sad the lengths people will go through to screw the buying public.  I have never had to go through disputes with eBay or PayPal.  I did have over $950 erroneous charge on my credit card many years ago.  It took about 9 months to get that taken off with numerous letters and phone calls.

I have the SM5 Raw Black versions so overlooking the obvious between our clubs, three things stand out as being different.  It would be nice to get a picture of the other side to see if anything else is noticeable.

1)  Mine do not have any of those stickers on them.  That bottom sticker is really weak.  Up near the grip on all of mine is/were a holographic type sticker that has "Certified Authentic" with an "AP" number in it.  I removed a bunch of stickers on the first two that I got but left them on the others.  I don't plan on selling them anyways so the others will probably be removed.

2)  All of the number engravings on mine do not appear to be as deep.

3)  The "Vokey" is centered above the "Design" on all of my clubs.

Three of mine were purchased at a big box store in person at different times.  One was a demo club with associated stickers identifying it as such.  I don't think it was hit too many times.  The masking tape did its job.  The other club was purchased off from the internet from a well known dealer in the U.S.  Another should be arriving in a week so all should be good.  I bought new irons that had stronger lofts so it threw my SM5 wedge lofts into a tizzy and the damn things are breeding like rabbits.

[DrvFrShow]

Okay here are my Vokey Wedges and all the labels that were on them aside from the TruTemper label. Both bought from the same pro shop.

The top is an SM5 56 wedge.

My SM4:

[Shorty]

  Shindig said:

Have you alerted Titleist? Among other things, be sure to retain the seller's identifying information. At least in the states, many OEMs will replace counterfeit products with legitimate ones in exchange for such information.

They most certainly will not.

[DrvFrShow]

Your best bet is through e-bay and Pay Pal. You can verify whether you have a counterfeit with Titleist, and then file your claim with Pay Pal.

Some counterfeits are quite convincing, too. Gibson Guitars have been victims of them. Counterfeit Gibsons made in China and sold for $400-500 new on e-bay, and they look really good until you closely examine the details.

[iacas]

  Shorty said:

They most certainly will not.

Even if the answer is "sometimes they will" (and I know it has happened in the past some times) then that's incorrect.

[Shorty]

  iacas said:

Even if the answer is "sometimes they will" (and I know it has happened in the past some times) then that's incorrect.

I am sure that it may have happened on some occasions (which obviously rules out the definitive nature of my post), but the OEM statements about counterfeiting specifically or implicitly state that they will not do this.

The other thing is that they are scouring the internet for counterfeit goods on a daily basis and are not going to be helped by being given information about ebay sellers they most probably already know about. But they still like information.

They are going to be more likely to reiterate their preference that you purchase from a reliable and known source  (authorized dealer) and I think it is wrong for someone to suggest to someone that there is a policy where they will give you new and legitimate clubs for "information".

Agreed, I should have said that it would be  "most unlikely". :-)

From the Titleist website:

How can I make sure that I purchase authentic Titleist product?

To ensure that you purchase authentic Titleist product, always buy from an authorized Titleist retailer. Our products are primarily sold at golf courses, off course golf specialty shops and certain sporting goods stores. Authentic Titleist products should not be sold at flea markets.

In addition, authorized Titleist accounts are not permitted to sell new Titleist products on Internet auction websites. When you make purchases in these unauthorized locations, there is a much greater chance that the products offered are counterfeit.

To find an authorized retailer, please see our Golf Shop Locator.

I think I purchased a counterfeit Titleist product, what can I do?

You should contact the seller immediately. Most online auction websites have policies to protect a buyer against this type of activity.

To view eBay’s policies, please see www.ebay.com, or click here.

You can also share this information with Acushnet. Please note that Acushnet can not reimburse you for your purchase of counterfeit product. But you can help stop this practice by sharing your experience with us.

And from Ping......

If you purchased what you later determine to be a counterfeit PING product, your options include reporting the seller to the appropriate authorities. PING would also appreciate your reporting the seller to us so we can further investigate.

[Shindig]

It looks like I may have been wrong here, then. As +Shorty points out, their own websites say they don't do it -- although I wonder if they always don't. I can certainly see the worry that someone might choose a cheap counterfeit as a way to get a genuine one for effectively that price from the company. I do know people who have inadvertently purchased counterfeit clubs and got them replaced by OEM though, so I know it does happen sometimes. In fact, everyone I know who has discovered a then-recent purchase to be a counterfeit (not an empty set) has gotten such a replacement. But this might be a sampling bias.

[iacas]

  Shindig said:

It looks like I may have been wrong here, then. As +Shorty points out, their own websites say they don't do it -- although I wonder if they always don't. I can certainly see the worry that someone might choose a cheap counterfeit as a way to get a genuine one for effectively that price from the company.

It would certainly be a reason why they would not publicly share that they sometimes replace counterfeit with authentic.

[treebound]

Has the seller been contacted yet? And if so then what was their response? I'm just curious.