Hitting a Plateau with Ability

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Point was time does not always mean success.-I thought that was obvious.

INFORMATION and NATURAL SKILL and so many other things play a big role too.

I know but I am still amazed you have a guy who plays once a week, has never practiced, and he plays to a +2. Why haven't you tried to get him to take the game a bit more serious and see where he falls? I mean he could at least be ringing up amateur events left and right.

I get that time doesn't mean success. But it takes time to put in the information and unlock the natural skill to be successful.. right?

Perhaps this once a week playing is a focused practice session for him, and that he can somehow visualize things when he is not actually playing? There seems to be a lot more to this "Talent Code" theory. It illustrates how focused practice could be a lot more valuable than spending hours doing something?

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

And many golfers are happy where there are at.   I.e, they are happy to just enjoy the game.  For me, if I can get my HI to somewhere around 10, I don't think I will be so obsessed with improving my game.   At 16+ HI, I feel I am hitting a plateau myself and need to figure out what "smart" things I need to do to get it moving again ... to 10.   It may happen in 2 - 3 years or never.

You can do it, I can feel it in the air.

I don't really care if I improve any more as I've met my handicap goal. The main thing I hate is mishits. If I can avoid mishits, this makes me happy.

Lihu, you DID notice that my HI goal 10 is slightly, just a tad below what your HI is now, right?

( Don't tell me you are hitting a plateau )

[Phil McGleno]

I know but I am still amazed you have a guy who plays once a week, has never practiced, and he plays to a +2. Why haven't you tried to get him to take the game a bit more serious and see where he falls? I mean he could at least be ringing up amateur events left and right.

It is not on topic but I think he is happy making his millions doing other things. Stop obsessing please it was to make a point.

[GHIN0011458]

It is not on topic but I think he is happy making his millions doing other things. Stop obsessing please it was to make a point.

Okay- sorry about that. I will take your word for it. I will get there though, to the point of beating him. Thanks for the motivation today :).

[GHIN0011458]

It is not on topic but I think he is happy making his millions doing other things. Stop obsessing please it was to make a point.

"the expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations . "

Now I'm really confused..

[Ernest Jones]

[COLOR=555555] "the expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations[URL=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1121970/1/index.htm].[/URL]" [/COLOR] Now I'm really confused.. :loco:

Yes, you certainly are.

[Lihu]

Lihu, you DID notice that my HI goal 10 is slightly, just a tad below what your HI is now, right?

( Don't tell me you are hitting a plateau )

Yup, I noticed. . .

No plateau that I know of, just don't care if I improve beyond where I am now. . .

Back on topic, I see no reason why age or anything should affect how well you can play. Yes, you might never hit 350 yard drives, but on the other hand how many people do anyway?

[iacas]

"the expert golfer has maximum time to make minimal compensations. The poorer player has minimal time to make maximum compensations."

Now I'm really confused..

Read it again. Makes sense to me. Also… OT.

[JonMA1]

FWIW, I think I will improve to some degree. Most of the information I've read and have been provided doesn't always make sense at first but always seems to eventually. Here's a few of my favorites (paraphrasing):

You can't just try different things and hope you get better... that hardly ever works.

The mental part of the game is not that important

High handicappers hit good shots 10% of the time and then believe the other 90% is an anomaly when its just the opposite

Feel isn't real

Regardless of the results, your (bad) swing is basically the same

There are a lot of bad instructors out there

You should take lessons (but not from one of the bad instructors)

You should take more video

Its not how much practice but the quality of the practice

Slide the hips towards first base

Focus on your priority piece

You can't neglect your (short game) practice and complain about not getting better

Ok, there are many more that I can't think of right now, but you get the point.

Am I satisfied with the level I'm at? Not at all. When I first started this thread, I thought I had little control over it. Now I'm re-thinking that a bit thanks to many of the responses. But... I am going to try and enjoy golf (even at my level), otherwise what's the point? Life is too short to be miserable when you have a choice.

@JonMA1

Keep in mind that the score card isn't really a great way to track your improvement. It's pretty much the LAST place where improvement shows up. Use your ball flight and video to see your swing get better (it is) and the scores will eventually start to come down, but focusing on scores will just frustrate you and mask the good things that are resulting from the hard work you're putting in.

Never thought of it this way but that makes sense. I wonder how often a bad score motivates us to "fix" something that isn't really broken.

I started in middle age & seem to have steadily gotten better.     Last year or so, the improvement has been slight.     Seems to me there's some truth in hitting a plateau with ability and the body you have left ... my only goal in golf is to see single digit hcp on my card one day - at least I know from TST that I need to keep working on my GIRs (putting is what it is) ... TBD

I think you'll get there. They say it's hard to get good at this game when you start later in life. Seems like you've done pretty well by getting to a 12.

@JonMA1 It sounds like you've convinced yourself that you will never get much better than you are now. It's not true so stop telling yourself that. You are NOT stuck with the swing you have now. It won't come overnight, but it will change. You just have to be patient and enjoy the game through the changes. Keep putting in the reps and working hard.

Thanks @CarlSpackler .

How much time they put into the game.

How much of that time they put into properly improving.

How much they care, the strength of their desire.

Their athleticism.

Their information/instruction.

Their willingness to suffer some bumps on the road to improvement.

The number of beers they drink a round.

The formats they play.

etc.

Not all matter as much as the others, but those and other things DO matter and determine the plateau.

The second item of this list really stands out for me. If this comes as a result of proper practice, there's a lot of room for improvement.

It all comes down to a repeatable swing that gets the ball in the center of the clubface.  The more you practice/play, the more you strike the ball out of the center.

There was a short period of time this winter when this was my main focus. I thought I had really gotten better. Aim small, miss small.

[Lihu]

FWIW, I think I will improve to some degree. Most of the information I've read and have been provided doesn't always make sense at first but always seems to eventually. Here's a few of my favorites (paraphrasing):

You can't just try different things and hope you get better... that hardly ever works. Unless, you find the right things to do, then you don't have to just hope.

The mental part of the game is not that important, as a decent swing

High handicappers hit good shots 10% of the time and then believe the other 90% is an anomaly when its just the opposite. Disagree, when I was a higher handicap player I knew my shots were all crap and still think they're all crap. . .

Feel isn't real. It could be if you figure out what to feel, but I agree in general it's not.

Regardless of the results, your (bad) swing is basically the same. It changes over time, mine has in tiny little steps. Even the tiniest of changes feel like the world is changing under you.

There are a lot of bad instructors out there. And bad students. More likely an incompatibility. . .

You should take lessons (but not from one of the bad instructors), find an instructor you can work with well.

You should take more video. Agree!

Its not how much practice but the quality of the practice. Just learned this. . .I'm convinced of this as well.

Slide the hips towards first base

Focus on your priority piece. Unless you have something else to work on to get to your priority piece, in which case you need to remember what it is for a few months while figuring out how to get to it. Don't lose sight of it.

You can't neglect your (short game) practice and complain about not getting better. So true. . .I just stopped complaining about it until I can work on it.

Am I satisfied with the level I'm at? Not at all. When I first started this thread, I thought I had little control over it. Now I'm re-thinking that a bit thanks to many of the responses. But... I am going to try and enjoy golf (even at my level), otherwise what's the point? Life is too short to be miserable when you have a choice.

I think you will improve a lot more than just "some degree". I highlighted my own twist on your statements. One thing is that you need to stop caring that you will improve and focus on the things you have a concrete handle on. Your current priority, or whatever you need to do to work on it.

I'm working hard on this as well, and only because I want to fix things, not for the glory of having a low handicap. I couldn't care less about my handicap, it is what it is. I enter my strokes and it "magically" comes out the other side. . .just like food in your body.

[rkim291968]

I couldn't care less about my handicap, it is what it is. I enter my strokes and it "magically" comes out the other side. . .just like food in your body.

OT.

I care the most about my differential score average where I count every penalties (no ESC applied).  This average tells me where I am at exactly, and if I am really improving or not.   The average tells me that I stopped improving last month although HI kept going down.  I've plateaued a bit which I am going to fix with tightening short game.  So I hope.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I couldn't care less about my handicap, it is what it is. I enter my strokes and it "magically" comes out the other side. . .just like food in your body.

I care the most about my differential score average where I count every penalties (no ESC applied).  This average tells me where I am at exactly, and if I am really improving or not.   The average tells me that I stopped improving last month although HI kept going down.  I've plateaued a bit which I am going to fix with tightening short game.  So I hope.

There's that word again. I know that any major improvements I need are in my long game. I'm not hoping I will improve my swing to improve my game. The only uncertainty is if I am doing the correct things to make those improvements. Being the engineer, I record every session and every shot during my training and comment on as much as I can. I can either review them or hope to get meaningful comments on them. There is no hope that improving my full swing will eventually improve my game.

Knowing the differential might let you know if you are improving your scoring ability, but score alone will tell you very little about what you need to do to improve your swing (game). You (we) already know that you (we) need to improve your (our) full swing. Your differential will not directly tell you if you are improving your swing or not. Even "reducing" mishits won't directly tell you anything about your swing improvements. You could be just compensating better for some swing flaw.

Any improvements to your swing are visible only in videos you take of it and any analysis that comes from viewing it. Live instruction is the better way, but more expensive. . .

[rkim291968]

Am I satisfied with the level I'm at? Not at all. When I first started this thread, I thought I had little control over it. Now I'm re-thinking that a bit thanks to many of the responses. But... I am going to try and enjoy golf (even at my level), otherwise what's the point? Life is too short to be miserable when you have a choice.

This!

I love to improve on golf but I won't let it rule or ruin my golf "hobby."

[JonMA1]

Originally Posted by Lihu

I'm working hard on this as well, and only because I want to fix things, not for the glory of having a low handicap. I couldn't care less about my handicap, it is what it is. I enter my strokes and it "magically" comes out the other side. . .just like food in your body.

It's definitely a balancing act between trying to get better and just enjoying the time out there. I think we sometimes make more out of this than we should, but it seems to be a common issue among most who play the game. Don't think we'd be able to have this conversation with a non-golfer however.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I'm working hard on this as well, and only because I want to fix things, not for the glory of having a low handicap. I couldn't care less about my handicap, it is what it is. I enter my strokes and it "magically" comes out the other side. . .just like food in your body.

It's definitely a balancing act between trying to get better and just enjoying the time out there. I think we sometimes make more out of this than we should, but it seems to be a common issue among most who play the game. Don't think we'd be able to have this conversation with a non-golfer however.

Probably not.

My main takeaway is that incentive to improve should not come from scoring lower. Someone can shoot a 77 then a 97 on any given round. The main thing for me (and possibly everyone) is to improve the swing so that enjoying the game is easier to do. This is why focusing on improving your handicap is not always a good thing. It's really not good to focus on anything that does not improve your game (basically swing).

[Lancer78]

You can play good golf even when you are older.  Look at Tom Watson.  Heck, even my instructor shot a 63 at age 63.

[Lihu]

Sure, I think age has a lot less to do with reaching your potential in golf than many are implying. It's basically not as stressful to the body as other sports, so many people can continue to get better with proper training. The main thing for older guys is to avoid injury.

[DrvFrShow]

Yes, avoid injury. Saving a stroke isn't worth injury.