Turnberry to Undergo Renovations

[billchao]

http://golfweek.com/news/2015/apr/21/donald-trump-turnberry-british-open-renovations/

Quote:

TURNBERRY, Scotland – Expect a vastly changed golf course the next time the British Open is held at Turnberry. Donald Trump and a wadful of money should ensure arguably the world’s most beautiful links looks nothing like it did when Stewart Cink beat Tom Watson in a playoff for the 2009 British Open.

Trump has employed respected British architect Martin Ebert to oversee renovation of the Ailsa Course, venue for four Opens. Ebert, of MacKenzie Ebert, is already involved in modifications of six of the ten Open Championship venues – Royal Portrush, Royal St George’s, Royal Lytham, Royal Troon, Carnoustie and now Turnberry.

The course will still play as a par 72, but it will measure 7,350 yards, with the championship tees able to be pushed back to 7,450 yards.

These changes sound pretty good. I like how they're going to actually use the lighthouse as a backdrop for the new par 3.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

The course will still play as a par 72, but it will measure 7,350 yards, with the championship tees able to be pushed back to 7,450 yards.

The course will be configured differently. Currently there are two par 5s and four par 4s. Next summer, the championship course will feature three par 5s and five par 3s.

I think whoever wrote this article needs to get their story straight regarding the par configuration.

[Golfingdad]

I think whoever wrote this article needs to get their story straight regarding the par configuration.

Clearly "four par 4s" is just a typo and should say four par 3s.

[billchao]

Clearly "four par 4s" is just a typo and should say four par 3s.

Funny, I didn't catch that. Must have just assumed it read par 3s.

[SavvySwede]

It also says five par 3s yet is somehow still par 72.

[Golfingdad]

It also says five par 3s yet is somehow still par 72.

Well, it also said they added a par 5 to cancel the extra par 3 out, so it stands to reason that it will still play the same par. But I see what you're saying now, because if you assume that the rest of the holes are all par 4's then that doesn't add up to 72.

[MrFlipper]

The linked article didn't give many details, so here is another article with more detail

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/golf/top-stories/donald-trump-outlines-changes-to-turnberry-golf-course-1-3749613

Here's an excerpt:

In short, it will involve the construction of five new holes and nine new greens, although all 18 putting surfaces will be dug up and relaid as part of a project that has been tagged as the “rebirth” of the Ailsa Course.

With a focus on moving as many holes as possible closer to the Firth of Clyde, thereby improving the views of both Ailsa Craig and Arran, Trump and his course designer, Martin Ebert, are making the most significant changes to the run of holes from the fourth to the 11th, all of which have the water flanking the left side of their fairways.

Three of those eight holes will become par-3s after Trump received blessing from South Ayrshire Council to move the green at the ninth, currently a blind par-4 with a hog’s-back fairway, closer to the iconic lighthouse. Announced recently that it will become a new halfway house, the lighthouse will also now provide a stunning backdrop as golfers hit from the current tee that sits halfway out to sea, across the ocean to the new green. Visually, it will be stunning and, measuring 235 yards with a 200-yard carry required from the championship tees, it also has scope to become one of the most feared holes on the Open Championship rota.

If anyone wants more detail, there's a great video that explains the changes with a fly over video.

Whether you like the changes or not, it's going to be a brand new course way moreso than not. Looks like it will be very nice.  But it might as well be a completely brand new course. The old Turnberry is my favorite course of all time. It's going to be gone soon. I won't be going back anyway.

Anyone who wants to play the course that hosted famous Opens and has lots of history has a short while to play it before it's gone.

[SavvySwede]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavvySwede

It also says five par 3s yet is somehow still par 72.

Well, it also said they added a par 5 to cancel the extra par 3 out, so it stands to reason that it will still play the same par. But I see what you're saying now, because if you assume that the rest of the holes are all par 4's then that doesn't add up to 72.

Big Bertha Alpha 815 DBD   TD-03 Putter   
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TP MC irons                 
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588 RTX 62

[natureboy]

Read the article. Why is a camelback fairway considered de-facto unfair? Isn't it a specific kind of design feature as a challenge to work the ball from near or off the fairway edge into the slope from either the left or right in order to hold the fairway while risking a straight shot into trouble?

[MrFlipper]

Read the article. Why is a camelback fairway considered de-facto unfair? Isn't it a specific kind of design feature as a challenge to work the ball from near or off the fairway edge into the slope from either the left or right in order to hold the fairway while risking a straight shot into trouble?

Its not even that severe, there's no hazard other than rough to either side, I sure didn't consider it unfair or even that big a deal. That whole property doesn't have a natural flat spot on it anyway.

Plus its not like there aren't "quirky" holes on the other courses in the rota. It's part of the links charm, I think.

IMO the 9th hole was a good hole with some memorable features. The cool back tee will stay (tournament players only, regular players aren't allowed back there, its too fragile) but the fairway with the rock in it and the cool green complex will go away.

I sure hope Trump doesn't get his hooks into any other historic courses. He's turning this into something completely different.

Maybe its not apples to apples, but imagine how folks would feel if Trump bought St Andrews or Carnoustie and decided to reroute it and drastically rebuild/redesign some holes. That's kind of what's at play for me here. It's just wrong.

I know, those two courses are both basically munis, so Trump can't get 'em

[natureboy]

Its not even that severe, there's no hazard other than rough to either side, I sure didn't consider it unfair or even that big a deal. That whole property doesn't have a natural flat spot on it anyway.

Plus its not like there aren't "quirky" holes on the other courses in the rota. It's part of the links charm, I think.

IMO the 9th hole was a good hole with some memorable features. The cool back tee will stay (tournament players only, regular players aren't allowed back there, its too fragile) but the fairway with the rock in it and the cool green complex will go away.

I sure hope Trump doesn't get his hooks into any other historic courses. He's turning this into something completely different.

Maybe its not apples to apples, but imagine how folks would feel if Trump bought St Andrews or Carnoustie and decided to reroute it and drastically rebuild/redesign some holes. That's kind of what's at play for me here. It's just wrong.

I know, those two courses are both basically munis, so Trump can't get 'em

From what I read, Trump is really implementing changes that the R&A; actually desired for a while and he's using a local architect to help insure some sensitivity to the historical context. I wouldn't expect any golden palaces or waterfalls, just nicer hotel rooms and some reasonable course improvements. I was just saying that a 'camelback' was an historic driving challenge feature and not necessarily 'unfair', though perhaps tougher in an era of lower spin balls.

[MrFlipper]

From what I read, Trump is really implementing changes that the R&A; actually desired for a while and he's using a local architect to help insure some sensitivity to the historical context. I wouldn't expect any golden palaces or waterfalls, just nicer hotel rooms and some reasonable course improvements. I was just saying that a 'camelback' was an historic driving challenge feature and not necessarily 'unfair', though perhaps tougher in an era of lower spin balls.

Could be, but the article said they had the "backing" of the R&A; something different.

The architect is a famous guy who has worked on other rota courses.

I wouldn't call it reasonable course improvements, that to me means a bunker here, a tee there, etc. Like they did in the last renovation. Something that kept the flow and feeling of the course the same, but improved. Or at least, not radically different.

This is more like a total rebuild into something completely different.

Notice also that the R&A; hasn't committed to a spot for the Open yet either. I know the course is just a part of it, but it sounds like Trump took off on this expense without a commitment from the R&A.; Maybe he has one in secret, who knows. But I understood that the R&A; didn't have an issue with the old course per se, but that their issues were with lack of hotels, etc and crappy access (one 2 lane road as I remember that hasn't been widened that I'm aware of). Turnberry is kind of out in the sticks---

Plus I'm disappointed about all this so I'm not that objective to begin with