UFC 193 Rousey vs Holm

[Jeremie Boop]

Preface: If you haven't watched it and don't want to know the results please close this thread

 

Anyone watch this? The overall card was pretty disappointing to me. Though 2 fights in particular I enjoyed were the ones where the *in my opinion* over hyped people got dominated. I have never liked Hall, just something about him I don't like. To be fair, I think the fact that he stepped in to take the fight and it being his 3rd fight in just over 3 months probably had something to do with his loss. Holm on the other hand, that woman is pretty impressive. People were dismissing her abilities before the fight and I just don't understand why. I've known from the first time I saw her fight when they announced this match up that she was going to be very dangerous. That fight is more like what you would expect to see in any other championship fight on the men's side where people have dedicated a significant portion of their life to fighting. Both fighters were very dangerous in their given specialty and it was going to come down to who was able to keep the fight in their wheelhouse. I'm sure that there will be a rematch and that should be an interesting fight, but I imagine it would result in a similar end. That knock out was as highlight worthy as any I've ever seen. I wonder how long it will be before the rematch or at least Holm's first defense. I can see her being just as dominant and ending fights as quickly as Rousey has in the past.

[shanksalot]

 The reason most dismissed Holm was Rousey had beat down on everyone who had been in the octagon with her. Rousey had only had one fight go past the first round and dispatched her last three opponents in just a few minutes total. Rousey had been hyped so much and rightly so over the last year that  everyone thought she was invincible. Except Holm I guess. When Rousey took her down the first round and could do little with her that was a telling moment. When the second round started it looked like Rousey was already beat. She looked tired and then to make matters worse she started chasing Holm. That was a big mistake. You don't chase someone who is a great striker with both her hands and feet. The result was enevitable. Down goes Rousey, down goes Rousey. To bad Howard Cosell was not still alive and announcing this fight. My question now is will Ronda want a rematch. If so she needs to find a new way to combat Holly's strengths and not chase her. 

Edited November 15, 2015 by shanksalot

[Abu3baid]

Wow she is vicious..  That kick was just crushing.

[Jeremie Boop]

8 minutes ago, shanksalot said:

 The reason most dismissed Holm was Rousey had beat down on everyone who had been in the octagon with her. Rousey had only had one fight go past the first round and dispatched her last three opponents in just a few minutes total. Rousey had been hyped so much and rightly so over the last year that  everyone thought she was invincible. Except Holm I guess. When Rousey took her down the first round and could do little with her that was a telling moment. When the second round started it looked like Rousey was already beat. She looked tired and then to make matters worse she started chasing Holm. That was a big mistake. You don't chase someone who is a great striker with both her hands and feet. The result was enevitable. Down goes Rousey, down goes Rousey. To bad Howard Cosell was not still alive and announcing this fight. My question now is will Ronda want a rematch. If so she needs to find a new way to combat Holly's strengths and not chase her. 

That's the reason I think that a rematch will end much the same way. Rousey's striking needs to improve way too much to handle Holm and Holm's take down defense is already pretty much where it needs to be. I'm interested in seeing the next fight, because it will be telling how Rousey bounces back from such a defeat. I just discussed this with my brother a bit. When there is a fight between a grappler/submissionist and a striker *who has knock out power* I always favor the striker. Because at any time, whether they're losing or winning, they can end the fight with one strike. Whereas a grappler/submissionist has to close the gap and get close enough to take the person down. In that transition from outside to inside they are always in danger of a strike that can end the fight. And you are correct, that moment when Rousey had Holms on the ground and Holms got up that really was telling. Another thing that was telling, in that Holms wasn't too worried about getting submitted, was when Holms took Rousey down. Either way, I am looking forward to Holm's next fight, regardless of who it's against.

 

2 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

Wow she is vicious..  That kick was just crushing.

Yes it was, I saw Rousey's feet come off the ground a bit as she was going down. There was a ton of power behind the kick. Kind of scary actually, since it landed right on the side of Rousey's neck.

[Golfingdad]

I'm new to the sport but it's been talked about after the last few Rousey fights that her striking game is sloppy at best - and what little there was of it in the last fight, even a newbie like myself could tell that standing up isn't her game.

I want to like Rousey, and I thought I did, but it seems her sportsmanship also leaves a lot to be desired.  She didn't shake the hand offered her after the last fight and I heard she acted similarly yesterday.  Not a fan of that.

Anyways, I did not see the fight but I did see a gif of the finish.  That was some (well timed) kick. :)

[saevel25]

21 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Anyways, I did not see the fight but I did see a gif of the finish.  That was some (well timed) kick. :)

She set that kick up brilliantly. 

[LagShaft]

After watching the weigh in and the whole fight I have to say that Rousey looked like an amateur.  If she had a game plan to beat a seasoned fighter and former champion it looked like she completely ignored it.  We'll see how she rebounds but I think Holm has her number and is in a totaly different league.  When I saw the picture of Rousey looking dumbfounded at the paramedic I kept thinking it should have a caption that read "You mean I'm not all that"...

Edited November 16, 2015 by LagShaft

[Mr. Desmond]

I know nothing about the sport. I think because of the hype people failed to realize that Rousey has only had 12 matches, while Holm has had about 3X as many. Holm also has a boxing background, I believe, and Rousey ... not.

That is not a pretty pic ... like a deer in headlights ... or more like a bloated fish.

Edited November 16, 2015 by Mr. Desmond

[LagShaft]

Rousey is a former judo champion and Olympic gold medalist so coming from more of a tournament atmosphere maybe she doesn't know how to train for a single opponent as well as holm coming from a boxing or kick boxing background but her trainers should.  I would have thought she'd have had enough experience in competition to not buy into her own hype but she's still pretty young so maybe this will be a Learning experience for her.

[saevel25]

8 minutes ago, LagShaft said:

Rousey is a former judo champion and Olympic gold medalist so coming from more of a tournament atmosphere maybe she doesn't know how to train for a single opponent as well as holm coming from a boxing or kick boxing background but her trainers should.  I would have thought she'd have had enough experience in competition to not buy into her own hype but she's still pretty young so maybe this will be a Learning experience for her.

Well it's called mixed martial arts. I think she got complacent in that she could just out physical the other opponent. You can tell she's not use to out thinking her opponent when you take into account all the different aspects of MMA. In Judo you know your opponent is trained very similar to you.

[LagShaft]

28 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Well it's called mixed martial arts. I think she got complacent in that she could just out physical the other opponent. You can tell she's not use to out thinking her opponent when you take into account all the different aspects of MMA. In Judo you know your opponent is trained very similar to you.

True and with women's mma being so new she has been on top since the UFC adopted it.  I think we'll see a lot of changes in the level of competition as more and more women come into the sport.   

[Golfingdad]

Somebody on the internet made a humorous analogy today (and funny in part because it could have some truth to it) ... they pointed out that this had a "Rocky 3" feel to it.  Specifically, the first Clubber Lang fight with Rousey spending all of the lead up on tv, doing talk shows, and all the glitz and glamour stuff like rocky did in that movie. Basically, he didn't take it seriously and got pummeled for it by somebody who was under the radar and hungry.

Im interested to see where both ladies go from here. ( Rousey should take an exhibition fight with John Cena and then go train in LA with Meisha Tate for the rematch. ;))

[Gator Hazard]

Just saw the finish to the fight.  Owie.  I like Ronda but the disrespect she showed to a proven fighter who has held championship belts in boxing was a little much.  She got what she had coming to her and now she is going to have to go back and figure out how to get the belt back.  The funniest was her saying on the talk show how Holm was not going to knock her out with a kick to the head.  Hahahahaha.

22 hours ago, Jeremie Boop said:

That's the reason I think that a rematch will end much the same way. Rousey's striking needs to improve way too much to handle Holm and Holm's take down defense is already pretty much where it needs to be. I'm interested in seeing the next fight, because it will be telling how Rousey bounces back from such a defeat. I just discussed this with my brother a bit. When there is a fight between a grappler/submissionist and a striker *who has knock out power* I always favor the striker. Because at any time, whether they're losing or winning, they can end the fight with one strike. Whereas a grappler/submissionist has to close the gap and get close enough to take the person down. In that transition from outside to inside they are always in danger of a strike that can end the fight. And you are correct, that moment when Rousey had Holms on the ground and Holms got up that really was telling. Another thing that was telling, in that Holms wasn't too worried about getting submitted, was when Holms took Rousey down. Either way, I am looking forward to Holm's next fight, regardless of who it's against.

 

Yes it was, I saw Rousey's feet come off the ground a bit as she was going down. There was a ton of power behind the kick. Kind of scary actually, since it landed right on the side of Rousey's neck.

I tend to lean the other way and most fights between people of different backgrounds such as striking versus submission/grappling have proven out that the ability to take an opponent to the ground and control them gives a heavy advantage against a striker.  Why?  Well, a striker has to land that perfect punch before getting wrapped up and taken down.  A grappler usually only has to survive/avoid that first strike and get inside, mma gives that added amount of mixing up.  If you are a striker you feel comfortable tying up with someone on your feet, but if you are in MMA against someone who has a grappling background that is exactly what you do not want to do.  

I think of it like this, and I am biased as I am(okay, should really say WAS) a grappler , far more often I am going to get hold of a person with a take down move, and my success rate will be even higher against a non grappling opponent, even one who has some training in it to shore up a weakness.  This opens up a whole treasure trove of tools that can be used.  A striker?  They have to get that one or two very good strikes before it happens.  Yes, some times they are going to get that strike, but the odds of it are not as great.  If a striker misses, they miss, if a grappler doesn't land their move perfectly they are typically still in position, close, and able to adjust rapidly to another move that corrects and allows a successful take down.

I have not seen the whole fight but plan on it later.  I have heard Ronda took her down and couldn't finish her, this could mean that she has relied on her one trick pony move for too long and needs to learn more ground and pound and other submissions besides an arm bar.

12 hours ago, LagShaft said:

Rousey is a former judo champion and Olympic gold medalist so coming from more of a tournament atmosphere maybe she doesn't know how to train for a single opponent as well as holm coming from a boxing or kick boxing background but her trainers should.  I would have thought she'd have had enough experience in competition to not buy into her own hype but she's still pretty young so maybe this will be a Learning experience for her.

She is a bronze medalist.  She lost to an opponent she had twice beaten previously in an overtime round.  This person oddly shared a similar feature to Holly Holm, taller and had reach.  Rousey raced the clock in that match and made a small mistake and lost.  That person eventually took silver, evidently Rousey did not learn her lesson from what I am hearing about her chasing Holm around the ring.  

Tournament atmosphere has nothing to do with fighting.  It isn't poker where you play tournament strategy versus cash strategy.  She has trained for a single opponent her entire life in anticipation of the Olympics and has only ever faced one opponent at a time. 

Edited November 16, 2015 by Gator Hazard

[LagShaft]

51 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

Just saw the finish to the fight.  Owie.  I like Ronda but the disrespect she showed to a proven fighter who has held championship belts in boxing was a little much.  She got what she had coming to her and now she is going to have to go back and figure out how to get the belt back.  The funniest was her saying on the talk show how Holm was not going to knock her out with a kick to the head.  Hahahahaha.

I tend to lean the other way and most fights between people of different backgrounds such as striking versus submission/grappling have proven out that the ability to take an opponent to the ground and control them gives a heavy advantage against a striker.  Why?  Well, a striker has to land that perfect punch before getting wrapped up and taken down.  A grappler usually only has to survive/avoid that first strike and get inside, mma gives that added amount of mixing up.  If you are a striker you feel comfortable tying up with someone on your feet, but if you are in MMA against someone who has a grappling background that is exactly what you do not want to do.  

I think of it like this, and I am biased as I am(okay, should really say WAS) a grappler , far more often I am going to get hold of a person with a take down move, and my success rate will be even higher against a non grappling opponent, even one who has some training in it to shore up a weakness.  This opens up a whole treasure trove of tools that can be used.  A striker?  They have to get that one or two very good strikes before it happens.  Yes, some times they are going to get that strike, but the odds of it are not as great.  If a striker misses, they miss, if a grappler doesn't land their move perfectly they are typically still in position, close, and able to adjust rapidly to another move that corrects and allows a successful take down.

I have not seen the whole fight but plan on it later.  I have heard Ronda took her down and couldn't finish her, this could mean that she has relied on her one trick pony move for too long and needs to learn more ground and pound and other submissions besides an arm bar.

She is a bronze medalist.  She lost to an opponent she had twice beaten previously in an overtime round.  This person oddly shared a similar feature to Holly Holm, taller and had reach.  Rousey raced the clock in that match and made a small mistake and lost.  That person eventually took silver, evidently Rousey did not learn her lesson from what I am hearing about her chasing Holm around the ring.  

Tournament atmosphere has nothing to do with fighting.  It isn't poker where you play tournament strategy versus cash strategy.  She has trained for a single opponent her entire life in anticipation of the Olympics and has only ever faced one opponent at a time. 

Good Insight on Rousey's career and Tourney vs prize fighting.  I agree with Great Grapplers having an advantage over Great strikers.  Chuck Liddel comes to mind but he was very much an exception.  I'll be interested to hear you take on the fight but won't say anymore until you've watched it. 

[Gator Hazard]

27 minutes ago, LagShaft said:

Good Insight on Rousey's career and Tourney vs prize fighting.  I agree with Great Grapplers having an advantage over Great strikers.  Chuck Liddel comes to mind but he was very much an exception.  I'll be interested to hear you take on the fight but won't say anymore until you've watched it. 

I was going to mention Chuck as well, but the reason I did not mention him that way is because he was a Div 1 collegiate wrestler.  In essence Liddell is very dangerous on his feet because he can be, he has an extensive background to draw on if someone attempts to take him to the ground and defenses to stop persons from doing such.  His striking was the best part of his game for sure but he could handle himself grappling.  He needed to learn the jiu-jitsu part of grappling that happens on the ground which is different than wrestling (more judo based until you get to the part where you are trying to put someone on their back) because wrestlers can feel too confident on the ground initially against jiu-jitsu until they learn they can get their arm broken or choked out while being on top, etc ha-ha.

Hats off to anyone with enough courage to step into one of those rings and do that I say.  

 

On another note, I think that Ronda should have to fight Cyborg at the 140 catch weight now.  This will be good for her in a few ways, help her get ready for another match against Holly without being unfair to other competitors and put that rivalry to rest one way or the other.  If she wins, she deserves another shot at Holm, if she doesn't, Holm should be allowed to defend her title against other opponents.  

Funny thing is I am not a big MMA fan/watcher.  I used to like it some time ago, but the reason I liked it is starting to go away.  To me it was refreshing as opposed to all of the baloney marketing gimmickery pre-fight stuff with people acting like jackwagons in the boxing world.  I loved that two opponents with martial arts backgrounds could be respectful of each other, get in the ring, try to murder each other, and when it was over, leave and be respectful.  Now they have turned it into boxing with all the added marketing drama.  

Edited November 16, 2015 by Gator Hazard

[LagShaft]

I watched it more through the Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, Rich Franklin and Matt Hughes era.  It was a time when White and company were more committed to cleaning up the sport and making it legitimate.  Now when I watch it it has more of a WWE aspect that I don't like.  That's why I was kind of interested in Holm after Rousey's real house wives tantrum at the weigh in lol. Otherwise I only watch it on occasion when I happen across it while channel surfing or catch the out come of fights in the news.

[Gator Hazard]

Saw this in a forum since the interweb is full of Ronda hate.  Saying Ronda Rousey in 10 years

 

 

Note the 2 Liter of Soda she is carrying around like it's a can of pop.  

Edited November 17, 2015 by Gator Hazard

[LagShaft]

The Reba shirt sells it!lol