Clinton vows to stop saying 'illegal immigrants'

[Jeremie Boop]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/clinton-vows-to-stop-saying-illegal-immigrants/ar-BBnoO7V?li=BBnb4R7

Just strikes me as funny. I mean, the opposite of being a legal resident would be illegal right? I don't know, just thought it would be interesting to see what others think about this, in my mind, utter silliness and super PC bullcrap.

[Gator Hazard]

This is baloney.  Trespassing is trespassing, they are trespassing.  What she really means is "I do not want to upset a significant block of voters as I will do and say anything to become POTUS".  I cannot believe that we can get away with charging people money to become US Citizens, make them wait, take tests and all that and at the same time say "oooor you can take option B, the 'undocumented immigrants' route".  PC nonsense there is nothing wrong with calling illegal immigrants illegal aliens or illegal immigrants.  But we don't want to hurt their feeewings (intentional typo) so instead we will pander to them and let them have access to our programs. 

She is right though, they do have names and families and dreams, just like every single other human being.  Why are they different?  

[mcanadiens]

They don't care what you call em. Just don't call em late to dinner.

Let's just call them what they are foreigners.

 

[Gator Hazard]

7 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

They don't care what you call em. Just don't call em late to dinner.

Let's just call them what they are foreigners.

 

They are not merely foreigners.  Foreigners are visitors.  Foreigners go home, they go back to their country and their jobs.  Once you decide "Hey, I really like it here, I get a bunch of free stuff I don't have to pay for" you are no longer a foreigner.

[mcanadiens]

2 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

They are not merely foreigners.  Foreigners are visitors.  Foreigners go home, they go back to their country and their jobs.  Once you decide "Hey, I really like it here, I get a bunch of free stuff I don't have to pay for" you are no longer a foreigner.

Those are things that could get fixed. Just got to enforce the laws we actually already have.

[Gator Hazard]

2 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Those are things that could get fixed. Just got to enforce the laws we actually already have.

LOL!  How can we expect to do that when we are too afraid to even call them what they actually are??  We should prosecute them en mass and then put them to work in places like Arizona, Texas, and Southern California in the desert heat before deporting them again.  We know where a lot of them are, we know who a lot of them are, but we are too afraid to continually and consistently enforce our laws because to some they are not nicey nicey.  

Clinton is not going to advocate shipping away the cousins, uncles, aunts, mothers, brothers, sisters and fathers of the voters and expect them to vote for her.  Isn't that sad?  That getting into office and holding power is more important than actually enforcing our laws?  Long live the anchor babies of the 14th Amendment and all who can make it over with them.  Come on over and pump out a unit and get your free government assistance, bring the whole family, send back for them, mail a letter and let them know how to do it too. 

 

 

[dkolo]

13 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

They are not merely foreigners.  Foreigners are visitors.  Foreigners go home, they go back to their country and their jobs.  Once you decide "Hey, I really like it here, I get a bunch of free stuff I don't have to pay for" you are no longer a foreigner.

This isn't a semantic argument worth making, never mind that the word "foreigner" has no required connotation of a person being a visitor.

[Gator Hazard]

1 minute ago, dkolo said:

This isn't a semantic argument worth making, never mind that the word "foreigner" has no required connotation of a person being a visitor.

Disagree.  After it having been brought up it is worth pointing out that even the definition commonly uses the term "visitor" and also refers to a foreigner who decides to stay as an "immigrant"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreigner

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/foreigner

Gentrification of the words and vocabulary are part of the problem.  George Carlin did an entire skit on this.  Change the words, change the vocabulary and you lose sight of what you are actually trying to fix/change, treat, etc.

[dkolo]

2 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

Disagree.  After it having been brought up it is worth pointing out that even the definition commonly uses the term "visitor" and also refers to a foreigner who decides to stay as an "immigrant"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreigner

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/foreigner

Gentrification of the words and vocabulary are part of the problem.  George Carlin did an entire skit on this.  Change the words, change the vocabulary and you lose sight of what you are actually trying to fix/change, treat, etc.

I don't know how these make your point. An illegal alien is neither a citizen nor permanent resident.

Besides, the actual dictionary definition is below:

Full Definition of FOREIGNER

1

:  a person belonging to or owing allegiance to a foreign country

2

chiefly dialect :  one not native to a place or community :  stranger 1

[Gator Hazard]

1 minute ago, dkolo said:

I don't know how these make your point. An illegal alien is neither a citizen nor permanent resident.

Besides, the actual dictionary definition is below:

Full Definition of FOREIGNER

1

:  a person belonging to or owing allegiance to a foreign country

2

chiefly dialect :  one not native to a place or community :  stranger 1

I never said an illegal alien was a citizen or permanent resident. Foreigners and illegal immigrants are not the same thing in the context of the conversation and who is and is not residing legally within the United States.  By the second definition you just provided everyone is a foreigner the minute they step outside their city limits but that definition doesn't have context in relation to the discussion.

What is the point of this??? To argue semantics circularly or to define what to call a person who is here illegally?  I thought it was the later, in which case foreigner is not an accurate representation of the person any more than calling people who come here from Paris on vacation illegal aliens.

[dkolo]

9 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

I never said an illegal alien was a citizen or permanent resident.

Your first link that you cited gave that as the criteria

10 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

What is the point of this??? To argue semantics circularly or to define what to call a person who is here illegally?  I thought it was the later, in which case foreigner is not an accurate representation of the person any more than calling people who come here from Paris on vacation illegal aliens.

You made the contention to @mcanadiens. In any event, illegal aliens and visitors from Paris are all foreigners.

[Gator Hazard]

20 minutes ago, dkolo said:

Your first link that you cited gave that as the criteria

You made the contention to @mcanadiens. In any event, illegal aliens and visitors from Paris are all foreigners.

The definition of first link does not state that, it says, and I quote: "

• Alien (law), a person in a country who is not a citizen or permanent resident of that country. It does not include a 

Edited November 24, 2015 by Gator Hazard

[metbid]

There is a law againsat someone illegally entering your house, and they are criminals for doing so.  There are laws against illegally entering our country, and illegal aliens are criminals.  To say differently is ignoring the law.  We are a nation of laws, not 'feelings'.

Edited November 24, 2015 by metbid

[dkolo]

Just now, Gator Hazard said:

The definition does not state that, it says, and I quote: "

• Alien (law), a person in a country who is not a citizen or permanent resident of that country. It does not include a stateless individual.

 

illegal aliens are not merely foreigners. Once they decide to take up residence they are not a foreigner they are an illegal imigrant. 

Illegal immigrants are a subset of foreigners.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal-alien

Quote

illegal alien

noun

1. a foreigner who has entered or resides in a country unlawfully or without the country's authorization.

2. a foreigner who enters the U.S. without an entry or immigrant visa,especially a person who crosses the border by avoiding inspection or who overstays the period of time allowed as a visitor, tourist, or businessperson.

 

[Gunther]

Illegal foreigners?

[Gator Hazard]

1 hour ago, dkolo said:

Illegal immigrants are a subset of foreigners.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/illegal-alien

 

Okay, then let us apply your logic to another example by replacing a few key words:

Lets extrapolate this to terrorists.  Instead of Islamic Extremists lets just call them Muslims, because all Islamic Extremists are Muslims. (My sincere apologies but figured this would carry weight given current discussions in other threads).

You see the point?  Yes, the approach of they are all foreigners can mean they are foreign but they are more than that and we all know it and to just call them foreigners does not identify who they are and what their intent is here which is different than other foreigners intents.  If you walked up to Muslims in America and called them Islamic Extremists you would be castigated and rightfully so.  Also, since you brought semantics into play here.  I never just said foreigners I said "they are not MERELY foreigners".  The definitions also included this because CONTEXT is important and thus is not just a semantic argument over definition. Calling people by something other than what they are doesn't solve anything.  You can call them pink water buffalo, they are still illegal aliens not just "foreigners" a term typically used to refer to persons who are visiting from a different place.

 

 

[Jeremie Boop]

I must say, I did not anticipate the thread to go in this direction....

[rkim291968]

18 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

I must say, I did not anticipate the thread to go in this direction....

I will attempt to set it back to your intended direction, I hope.

It was a reasonable response from Clinton who was asked by Vargas to use "undocumented" instead of "illegal."   She agreed.    My  take?    Vargas should have focused on better things than the wording.    He has someone who can be the next POTUS and why waste a question/request in favor of asking more worthy question?    As to Clinton, she was cornered to say yes to the request.   Saying no would have been politically incorrect given the situation.   

 

We got ISIS, slow growing economy, Trump running rampant and Vargas is asking the POTUS candidate to use a better wording ....