Ready Golf vs Waiting for everyone at the green

[Gator Hazard]

14 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

I think one thing this thread makes clear is that playing fast ready golf is not as black and white, cut and dry, or as simple, as many who are frustrated by slow play maintain. TST and many other golf forums are replete with comments like, 'C'mon man! Just play ready golf! It's so simple!' Well, this scenario being discussed by experienced TSTers illustrates perfectly that it is not always that simple.

For a new golfer, maintaining the balance between etiquette and fast play can actually be quite confusing. My wife has adult ADD, and after playing for about 4 yrs, trying to remember grip, posture, alignment, the 20 swing thoughts she has been taught, and then etiquette AND ready play principles on top of all that, can be a little overwhelming for her sometimes. Me, I can play 18 in 2.5 easily with no one in front, but I wish some of those impatient players could realize that it's not that easy for some.

I play regularly with a couple folks who will quite often pull up to their drives in a 4ball and just hit immediately pretty much regardless of any of the other players. I will be pulling a club getting ready to hit, and then I notice 30 yds off to my right and slightly ahead they will be doing the same. Now I have to back off, let them hit, and go through my PSR again. They will then drive up the side of the hole while everyone else plays their approaches with them and their cart in their line of sight. They will then chip or putt while everyone else is driving up to the green and then stand there impatiently by the side of the green while we finish up. That kind of crap has got to stop. It's like the Ahole honking his horn in the middle of a traffic jam..

If you play with them regularly have you mentioned there is a difference between ready golf and jerk behavior?  I would discuss it with them and explain the reasons why you and the other person are lagging, since they seem to be in your line of sight.  I am all for ready golf but part of the fun is playing the game TOGETHER, not watching someone putt out while you are chipping or pitching onto the green or vice versa.

[dak4n6]

2 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

If you play with them regularly have you mentioned there is a difference between ready golf and jerk behavior?  I would discuss it with them and explain the reasons why you and the other person are lagging, since they seem to be in your line of sight.  I am all for ready golf but part of the fun is playing the game TOGETHER, not watching someone putt out while you are chipping or pitching onto the green or vice versa.

Actually, I guess I should have said I used to play with them regularly. Not so much anymore!

[MrDC]

Yup, you're not doing it right, ready golf does not mean putt before everyone is on the green, that is a hard rule- everyone on, then putting begins.

If some in the group are faster, and/or better, and frequently waiting for the slower players, too bad, they have to deal with it.

[Missouri Swede]

23 minutes ago, MrDC said:

Yup, you're not doing it right, ready golf does not mean putt before everyone is on the green, that is a hard rule- everyone on, then putting begins.

Which rule (or decision), by number, states this?

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, dak4n6 said:

I play regularly with a couple folks who will quite often pull up to their drives in a 4ball and just hit immediately pretty much regardless of any of the other players. I will be pulling a club getting ready to hit, and then I notice 30 yds off to my right and slightly ahead they will be doing the same. Now I have to back off, let them hit, and go through my PSR again. They will then drive up the side of the hole while everyone else plays their approaches with them and their cart in their line of sight. They will then chip or putt while everyone else is driving up to the green and then stand there impatiently by the side of the green while we finish up. That kind of crap has got to stop. It's like the Ahole honking his horn in the middle of a traffic jam..

And yet I think that he is doing no harm in taking the shot while you are getting set.  You seem to be rather easily distracted if someone 30 yards away is a problem for you in starting your routine.  That wouldn't faze me.  If I'm not first to play I will still be pulling a club and checking distance, etc. while he hits.  I'm not going to just stand there watching.  I would start going through my routine and I'd be ready to swing right after he hits.  If he gets to the ball first and goes through his routine promptly and I do the same, my ball will probably be in the air before his comes to rest.  Golf doesn't get any more "ready" than that.

If you had started your routine before he did, then he should show some respect, and be unobtrusive when he pulls the club from his bag and does whatever else he needs to do prior to actually making the shot.  30 yards should be plenty of separation to allow that.

1 hour ago, MrDC said:

Yup, you're not doing it right, ready golf does not mean putt before everyone is on the green, that is a hard rule- everyone on, then putting begins.

If some in the group are faster, and/or better, and frequently waiting for the slower players, too bad, they have to deal with it.

This is just wrong.  There is no such rule in golf, despite what some players seem to think.  If it's faster for a player to lag a putt while another one crosses to the back of the green for his chip, then the first guy should putt up.

[vangator]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2015 at 1:32 PM, No Mulligans said:

I think it's fine to putt before everyone is on the green.

Last round...

One of the players in a fairway bunker chunk it out only about ten yards and still further from the green than me.  I raked the bunker for him.

On another hole a player ten yards from the green thinned a wedge over the green.  The rest of us were on the green.  Two of us putted while he walked to his ball.

It's very situational and it's about courtesy and pace of play.

 

Good points.  I've done this many times as well.  But, if the guy that is still off can show me a line with their skulled shot, I may wait.  Depends if I'm putting for birdie or bogey.

[dak4n6]

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

And yet I think that he is doing no harm in taking the shot while you are getting set.  You seem to be rather easily distracted if someone 30 yards away is a problem for you in starting your routine.  That wouldn't faze me.  If I'm not first to play I will still be pulling a club and checking distance, etc. while he hits.  I'm not going to just stand there watching.  I would start going through my routine and I'd be ready to swing right after he hits.  If he gets to the ball first and goes through his routine promptly and I do the same, my ball will probably be in the air before his comes to rest.  Golf doesn't get any more "ready" than that.

If you had started your routine before he did, then he should show some respect, and be unobtrusive when he pulls the club from his bag and does whatever else he needs to do prior to actually making the shot.  30 yards should be plenty of separation to allow that.

No, quite often these two are in sync with the player who is really away - pull clubs at the same time, fine, take practice swings at the same time, fine, but then you address your ball and you notice they are also addressing their ball, and then you go 'OK, I guess Joe is going to hit', and you have to back off and reload. Even if I got to my ball 5 sec later but I'm away, why not just defer to letting me hit since I'm away? Do we have to start carrying stopwatches to see who got to their ball first? It becomes like a frigging race after a while. Not to mention they take off and now everyone else has to deal with them in their line of sight either driving down the fairway or standing by the green. Is this really necessary to save a few seconds here and there? I know it bothers all of my playing partners. They are constantly saying 'Why the f**k is Joe standing 20 ft from the pin when I have a 150 yd shot?!' The common reply is 'Go ahead and hit him'. Is this really how golf should be played?

[Fourputt]

25 minutes ago, dak4n6 said:

No, quite often these two are in sync with the player who is really away - pull clubs at the same time, fine, take practice swings at the same time, fine, but then you address your ball and you notice they are also addressing their ball, and then you go 'OK, I guess Joe is going to hit', and you have to back off and reload. Even if I got to my ball 5 sec later but I'm away, why not just defer to letting me hit since I'm away? Do we have to start carrying stopwatches to see who got to their ball first? It becomes like a frigging race after a while. Not to mention they take off and now everyone else has to deal with them in their line of sight either driving down the fairway or standing by the green. Is this really necessary to save a few seconds here and there? I know it bothers all of my playing partners. They are constantly saying 'Why the f**k is Joe standing 20 ft from the pin when I have a 150 yd shot?!' The common reply is 'Go ahead and hit him'. Is this really how golf should be played?

 

All I ever quoted you on was your routine.  If it was me I'd let them know that driving ahead while I'm still hitting is improper, and if they continue to do it, then they had better be prepared to duck.  In any event I'd tell them in no uncertain terms that I wasn't going to tolerate it.  That is quite different from the players in a group all getting prepped to hit at or near the same time.  

I expect my buddy 30 yards away to have his club selected, distance checked, everything ready to go as soon as I hit my ball - and he has the right to expect the same from me.  Whoever starts the routine first gets to hit first, but that doesn't mean that I won't start my routine before he swings.  As long as a player in my field of vision stops any overt moves when I'm ready to swing, he can pretty much do as he likes until then.

[dak4n6]

13 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I expect my buddy 30 yards away to have his club selected, distance checked, everything ready to go as soon as I hit my ball - and he has the right to expect the same from me.  As long as a player in my field of vision stops an overt moves when I'm ready to swing, he can pretty much do as he likes until then.

Agreed. Even my ADD wife does this. Just, in the name of playing quickly, these jack-offs will keep going and swing ignoring the fact that you were also ready to hit, then jump in their cart (they are husband/wife) and take off. Rinse and repeat. Actually, the group they play with has become accustomed to kind of ignoring them and hitting balls over them, right past them, and very close to them. It's dangerous and not enjoyable. Plus, they just end up waiting at each green for everyone to finish. There is no net savings in time at all. I don't get it. All in the name of 'playing fast'.

Actually, a 4 could get around in 2 hrs if each golfer played like a single totally ignoring the others. Why not have all 4 tee off simultaneously on every hole? But, hospital bills would certainly increase from fistfights, clubs to the teeth, and balls to the skull.

Edited January 6, 2016 by dak4n6

[MrDC]

6 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

Which rule (or decision), by number, states this?

Rule #612, decision 2, go look it up.

I understand there may be situations where a person can putt before others get on, but that's generally not the case, everyone should wait.

[Missouri Swede]

3 minutes ago, MrDC said:

Rule #612, decision 2, go look it up.

Rules of Golf only go to 34.  Typo? Thanks.

[Fourputt]

8 minutes ago, MrDC said:

Rule #612, decision 2, go look it up.

I understand there may be situations where a person can putt before others get on, but that's generally not the case, everyone should wait.

Why?  What possible logic can you come up with to have that make sense?  

And if you play it like that in a match, you are even more wrong if the player farthest from the hole is on the green and you play your chip out of turn.

[MrDC]

So the person takes the flag out, then putts, then puts it back for those off? seems silly, and slow.

Why putt out only to wait for the rest of the group anyway? may as well just wait.
 

[vangator]

I forgot that I often putt out of turn when I tap my 6 inch approach shot in.

Edited January 7, 2016 by vangator

[Fourputt]

7 hours ago, MrDC said:

So the person takes the flag out, then putts, then puts it back for those off? seems silly, and slow.

Why putt out only to wait for the rest of the group anyway? may as well just wait.
 

Why do you have to make this sound so complicated?  4 guys play their approach shots.  Player A is over the back, the rest are scattered on the green or just off the edges.  Player B with his ball on the front of the green is the first to get to the ball.  He starts his putting routine while the others are walking farther up the green.  Player A has the farthest to walk, so Player C tends the flagstick for Player B to lag up while they wait for Player A to get to his ball and figure out how he wants to play the shot.  

The groups I play with encounter this sort of situation almost every round at least once.  It's not that difficult, and it definitely gets us finished and off the green faster than if everybody just stands around waiting for Player A.  It's not unusual for two of us to putt while Player A is getting his chip squared away.

[dak4n6]

13 hours ago, Fourputt said:

Why do you have to make this sound so complicated?  4 guys play their approach shots.  Player A is over the back, the rest are scattered on the green or just off the edges.  Player B with his ball on the front of the green is the first to get to the ball.  He starts his putting routine while the others are walking farther up the green.  Player A has the farthest to walk, so Player C tends the flagstick for Player B to lag up while they wait for Player A to get to his ball and figure out how he wants to play the shot.  

The groups I play with encounter this sort of situation almost every round at least once.  It's not that difficult, and it definitely gets us finished and off the green faster than if everybody just stands around waiting for Player A.  It's not unusual for two of us to putt while Player A is getting his chip squared away.

This sounds easy on paper, and does work with experienced players who play together regularly.

With most other 4balls, however, esp if strangers get paired, what usually happens is everyone goes to their ball, then someone notices B is on the green but away, and asks "B, do you want to putt first?" then B looks at A and says "Are you ready or should I putt?" then A says "Go ahead if you're ready" then B says "OK" then  there is a moment until C realizes the pin needs to be tended then walks from his ball over to the stick and tends it while B re-reads his putt and then putts, then C puts the stick back in the hole for A and heads back to his ball while A chips and then the flag has to be pulled again.

I dunno, might have saved 5 seconds? I know if my wife were player B this would confuse her and make her feel rushed.

I still like the idea of a group playing like 4 singles. It would be very fast. And interesting.

Edited January 7, 2016 by dak4n6

[colin007]

Here's my idea of ready golf - "if you ain't hittin', I am."

[ev780]

On 1/6/2016 at 2:44 PM, MrDC said:

Rule #612, decision 2, go look it up.

I understand there may be situations where a person can putt before others get on, but that's generally not the case, everyone should wait.

Huh? Obviously a typo.  Which rule are you quoting?

Its simple.  Farthest away plays first. (Rule 10)  In stroke play no penalty for playing out of turn nor agreeing to play out of turn.  (Decision 10-2c/2) . Match play improper stroke can be recalled. (Rule 10-1c)

Now in reality it make more sense a lot of the time to get everyone on the green and pull the pin once.  That is very common but technically wrong.  Agreeing to play out of turn anywhere is also allowed as long as it is not for gaining an advantage. Putting line for instance.