My Swing (coop6)

[Golfer2223]

@coop6. You're right about opening up too fast. I should have worded differently. It's not that your body isn't moving where it needs to move. It's that your arms aren't moving with your body enough. Or you might say the body isn't inluencing the motion of the arms. Try the Dufner towel under arms drill, it's an extreme drill but it will help this. Your body rotation has to help turn the club back to square, that is the whole idea, feel the body and upper arms turning the club back. Once that happens you won't have to flip the club shut right after impact.

[mvmac]

1 hour ago, Golfer2223 said:

@iacas see it now

Tiger isn't "holding" the face open and he's certainly not "opening" the face after impact. It's more rotated than it was at impact.

[Golfer2223]

Is it? No it is not. It is exactly the same as it was at address, the top of the backswing, and impact. The clubface is square to his shoulders and the arc of the swing. His shoulders have rotated and the club has remained square. The reason for this is because he has most definitely NOT turned his arms and hands over at all. His arms and hands have remained square to the shoulders as they were at address. This is the golf swing. 

Also he is clearly hitting a little fade here. So if you think the club is more rotated, than he must have had the club very open at the top. I doubt that Tiger Woods had the club very open at the top.

[Golfer2223]

This is the position that @coop6 has to fix, and I'm sure he will want to fix it. The arms and club face have rotated over against the shoulders. The Tiger photo, or even the Dufner photo in my profile pic, is a great reference for everything staying square. The towel under arms is a good drill for this. I'm sure some people want the arguments even though it is plain to see, but just ignore them.

Edited February 13, 2016 by Golfer2223

[mvmac]

18 minutes ago, Golfer2223 said:

Is it? No it is not. It is exactly the same as it was at address, the top of the backswing, and impact. The clubface is square to his shoulders and the arc of the swing. His shoulders have rotated and the club has remained square. The reason for this is because he has most definitely NOT turned his arms and hands over at all. His arms and hands have remained square to the shoulders as they were at address. This is the golf swing. 

He definitely has rotated his forearms, that's why the face is close to matching his inclination/arc. It wouldn't look like that if it was in the exact same position as impact. Also it would be almost impossible to stop the "closing" from happening. Think of the speed that he's swinging.

18 minutes ago, Golfer2223 said:

Also he is clearly hitting a little fade here. 

Why? There are a lot of guys that draw the ball that look like that after impact. Here's Rory, he draws 95% of his shots.

 

[Golfer2223]

@mvmac why are you insisting on this. The forearms, hands, and club face do not have to twist and turn in order to make a golf swing. If I turned Tiger's shoulders back to impact, the club would be square, not shut.

In a perfectly square swing, it is just the illusion of arm rotation caused by the slight lag between the arms and upper body. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by Golfer2223

[Golfer2223]

The video you linked of Rory do you see how there is zero club face rotation after the ball?

[coop6]

@Golfer2223 I do want to fix that look.l, but I never and I mean never hook the ball. I'm more concerned about the transition, I'm completely aware that my arms and hands need to move down together. Atm my upper body spins faster than my arms move out and down. I want to get rid of the hands dropping, just want them to keep up with the body and then pivot it on through p5-p8. I appreciate the information .

[Golfer2223]

Excellent, you'll get it. Use an impact bag. Staying in posture will help tremendously. Of course you never hook it, you're whipping it closed just after impact to keep it straight! It's wide open before that and barely makes it to square at impact, then it closes down. If you were opening it after impact, then that would indicate you were hooking. Either move is impossible to control under pressure time and time again.

The drill I would do for this is to rotate the arms and body together, without a club. Practice the simultaneous rotation and connection. Go up into a full finish, and the rotate back to the backswing and forward again. This will get the brain understanding these muscles need to work together. Do this for ten minutes a day. Also making the right hand grip stronger will give you the feel of holding off the face, since it will be shut. This is important because your body also has to learn what it feels like to not rotate the face, or even rotate it the other way. Put these things together and you will fix the problem. It took me about 3 months but mine was slightly less severe so be patient.

[SavvySwede]

5 hours ago, Golfer2223 said:

@mvmac why are you insisting on this. The forearms, hands, and club face do not have to twist and turn in order to make a golf swing. If I turned Tiger's shoulders back to impact, the club would be square, not shut.

In a perfectly square swing, it is just the illusion of arm rotation caused by the slight lag between the arms and upper body. 

The rotation is clear as day. If the arms were still lagging behind at this point the face would appear more open, not closed.

[Golfer2223]

What rotation is clear as day? The rotation of the arms to square with the shoulders? That is my point, the rotation AGAINST the shoulders is about zero.  The toe of the club points to the center of the triangle at every point in the swing below the waist line. Coop has a club face rotating against the plane of the shoulders after impact. What is the argument here? Tiger Woods does not rotate the club face closed after impact, the club is square to the arc. The fact the arms trail the body and then catch up slightly is the only rotation, but it doesn't go against the shoulder plane one way or the other.

I've seen Tiger rotate the face open or closed after waist high, no where near post impact, but this is just a move to feel a draw or a fade. Most of the time he just lets the club follow the shoulder plane with no rotation. This is standard. The forward swing mirrors the backswing. Hunter Mahan is an even better example.

[SavvySwede]

9 minutes ago, Golfer2223 said:

What rotation is clear as day? The rotation of the arms to square with the shoulders? That is my point, the rotation AGAINST the shoulders is about zero.  The toe of the club points to the center of the triangle at every point in the swing below the waist line. Coop has a club face rotating against the plane of the shoulders after impact. What is the argument here? Tiger Woods does not rotate the club face closed after impact, the club is square to the arc. The fact the arms trail the body and then catch up slightly is the only rotation, but it doesn't go against the shoulder plane one way or the other.

I've seen Tiger rotate the face open or closed after waist high, no where near post impact, but this is just a move to feel a draw or a fade. Most of the time he just lets the club follow the shoulder plane with no rotation. This is standard. The forward swing mirrors the backswing. Hunter Mahan is an even better example.

It's happening right in the picture. The leading edge would be parallel to the lower (perpendicular to the swing plane line) if he didn't.

[Golfer2223]

It pretty much is, I'm not going to debate 5 degrees with you. As I've said repeatedly, Tiger's swing and a standard swing do not require rotation. On this shot he rotated 5 degrees, not much. If you want to play with rotation to closed enjoy. I prefer to keep the club square. 

[mvmac]

9 hours ago, Golfer2223 said:

The video you linked of Rory do you see how there is zero club face rotation after the ball?

And I strongly disagree with that. If he didn't rotate his forearms the club would be at about a 45 degree angle. The face would be pointing more towards the sky. The club is constantly "closing" on the downswing. This isn't my opinion, this has been measured by 3D sensors by biomechanics experts.

BTW I'm done debating this on someone else's swing thread. Also it's just common sense. 

[iacas]

12 hours ago, Golfer2223 said:

@iacas see it now

There's nothing to see there. I've never seen a good golfer with center contact "open the face" after impact on a full swing. The clubface is constantly closing throughout the horizontal to horizontal phase of impact. Some rotate slower than others, but they're all rotating relative to the plane AND the target line, and they're all closing.

10 hours ago, Golfer2223 said:

Is it? No it is not. It is exactly the same as it was at address, the top of the backswing, and impact.

It isn't, and @Golfer2223, we have machines and ways of actually measuring this stuff, and it isn't. It just isn't.

10 hours ago, Golfer2223 said:

Also he is clearly hitting a little fade here. So if you think the club is more rotated, than he must have had the club very open at the top. I doubt that Tiger Woods had the club very open at the top.

You do understand that the ball flight doesn't care about the amount of clubface rotation, right? It simply cares about the impact conditions. It doesn't matter much at all to the ball if the clubface was closing quickly or slowly.

In fact, a clubface that's closing more quickly during the impact interval will introduce a teeny tiny bit more fade bias to the golf ball… just like gear effect.

4 hours ago, Golfer2223 said:

What rotation is clear as day? The rotation of the arms to square with the shoulders? That is my point, the rotation AGAINST the shoulders is about zero.  The toe of the club points to the center of the triangle at every point in the swing below the waist line. Coop has a club face rotating against the plane of the shoulders after impact. What is the argument here? Tiger Woods does not rotate the club face closed after impact, the club is square to the arc. The fact the arms trail the body and then catch up slightly is the only rotation, but it doesn't go against the shoulder plane one way or the other.

He really doesn't. Please take a step back and consider that you could be wrong on this. Consider that you're talking to and with people who know quite a bit about what they're talking about.

[Golfer2223]

Some seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about rotation of the arm socket. As I've said, the arms follow the plane of the shoulders and maintain the plane. I'm referring to forearm rotation. No forearm rotation is required in the golf swing. Some seem to get it and others don't and that is ok. 

I can see someones clubface closing 40 degrees post impact so maybe there is something to learn from me. If people want to learn from what I'm saying that's excellent. If people want to argue it or say it is totally wrong that's okay too. I don't mind. I'm not trying to take anyone's job so there is no need to feel intimidated or get defensive.

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, Golfer2223 said:

Some seem to misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not talking about rotation of the arm socket. As I've said, the arms follow the plane of the shoulders and maintain the plane. I'm referring to forearm rotation. No forearm rotation is required in the golf swing. Some seem to get it and others don't and that is ok. 

It kinda is. Please see the response I offered in the topic you started.

14 minutes ago, Golfer2223 said:

I can see someones clubface closing 40 degrees post impact so maybe there is something to learn from me. If people want to learn from what I'm saying that's excellent. If people want to argue it or say it is totally wrong that's okay too. I don't mind. I'm not trying to take anyone's job so there is no need to feel intimidated or get defensive.

Nobody's getting defensive.

[Golfer2223]

 

 

in Dustin's swing, the club opens through impact (because it is so shut at the top). Then later it will square up again to the plane. Another example of a great golfer who doesn't close the face after impact.

I saw the response but don't see why I should respond when you've told me I have no ground to stand on. I will stick to helping those who are open to it. 

Okay I will respond to the next post you made because it will make my point clear.