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What flaws do you think there are in the handicap system?


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2 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Pardon my ignorance on the topic, but how was a slope rating of 113 determined to be "average?" I'm looking through the course ratings of all the regulation-length courses near me, and I'm hard-pressed to find one with a slope under 120 from the white tees.

Because it's not "average."

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A golf course of standard relative playing difficulty has a Slope Rating of 113. 

It's a subtle but important distinction.

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On July 22, 2016 at 2:13 PM, GolfLug said:

Would it make sense to skew the HCP to give more weight to the most recent round and less weight progressively to older rounds?

 

Interesting idea - especially for people who don't play terribly frequently.

Perhaps it could be something as simple as requiring that a certain number of the 10 best (5 I guess) come the most recent 20.

On July 22, 2016 at 2:56 PM, newtogolf said:

I don't think so, it would make sandbagging easier.  Handicap is supposed to represent your potential to score not just reflect your current scoring trends.  

Fair point.  This could be the roadblock.

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13 hours ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Pardon my ignorance on the topic, but how was a slope rating of 113 determined to be "average?" I'm looking through the course ratings of all the regulation-length courses near me, and I'm hard-pressed to find one with a slope under 120 from the white tees.

IIRC from Dean Knuth's site, there are more of these types of courses in the midwest / plains states.

Kevin

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5 minutes ago, natureboy said:

IIRC from Dean Knuth's site, there are more of these types of courses in the midwest / plains states.

That's kind of what I'm picturing: a 6,000-yard muni with few hazards, like a lot of the courses I saw growing up in Illinois. I question whether that's still an appropriate standard for judging course difficulty, since such a course is rudimentary compared to most that have been built since the rating system was established.

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16 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

That's kind of what I'm picturing: a 6,000-yard muni with few hazards, like a lot of the courses I saw growing up in Illinois. I question whether that's still an appropriate standard for judging course difficulty, since such a course is rudimentary compared to most that have been built since the rating system was established.

Again, it's not an average.

All 113 means is that it's the slope at which course handicaps scale with the handicap index. That's it.

You could create a system with 5000 golf courses, none of which were rated 113 or lower.

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Big flaw with the HDCP system? The humans who use it: less ethical players will always  try to game it to their benefit. Despite the new rule that you have to "play with others" to count a score, the system is still based on an honor system.

I'm fortunate - the group I play with, everyone is pretty straightforward about their HDCP, and the scores they turn in. Most of the variance from round to round - we're a seniors' group, and some players will have a blow-up round it they have a body part hurting that week.

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1 hour ago, WUTiger said:

Big flaw with the HDCP system? The humans who use it: less ethical players will always  try to game it to their benefit. Despite the new rule that you have to "play with others" to count a score, the system is still based on an honor system.

I'm fortunate - the group I play with, everyone is pretty straightforward about their HDCP, and the scores they turn in. Most of the variance from round to round - we're a seniors' group, and some players will have a blow-up round it they have a body part hurting that week.

From what I've read, intentional cheaters / HCP manipulators are a small percent of the golfing population.

A much larger group are those who play be relaxed rules that don't reflect accurate handicaps. They may think a drop plus a stroke is legit and submit for HCP in ignorance or for 'vanity' purposes. Also from what I've read, many more of those out there than sandbaggers.

Kevin

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32 minutes ago, natureboy said:

From what I've read, intentional cheaters / HCP manipulators are a small percent of the golfing population.

A much larger group are those who play be relaxed rules that don't reflect accurate handicaps. They may think a drop plus a stroke is legit and submit for HCP in ignorance or for 'vanity' purposes. Also from what I've read, many more of those out there than sandbaggers.

You are probably right that there are more vanity cappers out there than there are sandbaggers, overall

However, if you look only at players who are regularly playing in competitions, especially for actual prizes, I bet the numbers are closer, if not flipped. Those vanity cappers (particularly "accidental" ones who simply don't know the rules) are not playing in many tournaments.

- John

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