Sand in line of play

[MacDutch]

Today I played a matchplay. My opponent hits his ball in the greenside bunker. I hit it near to this bunker, 1 foot from the green. Easy lie to putt to the hole.

Because the green was sanded, there is a bit sand in my line of play and not on the green. Opponent hits his ball out of the bunker, taking a lot of sand out of the bunker and in my line of play (partly on and partly off the green).

Now what? I am entitled to my own lie, just a bit of sand on my line of play not on the green, but now there is a big heap of sand in my line of play and not on the green. So I clean up the mess....

But by cleaning up, I must have also cleaned up some of the sand that was already there. Difficult to tell if I did, or if I did not.

What would be the proper thing to do?

[Asheville]

Sounds okay. (However, please don't add to or change your story fifty posts later. ) 

[DrvFrShow]

Under 16-1a you can clear your line on the green from the sand as long as you do not press down anything.  The definition of "loose impediments" clearly states that "sand and loose soil are loose impediments on the putting green, but not elsewhere." 

So you cannot remove the sand in front of your ball that is not on the green. This includes the new sand. You can only brush aside the sand that is on the putting surface.

[Patch]

I' d just clean off the excess sand on the green, until my line looked like the rest of the sanded green. 

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

So you cannot remove the sand in front of your ball that is not on the green. This includes the new sand. You can only brush aside the sand that is on the putting surface.

That's incorrect. You're entitled to the lie your stroke gave you.

If your ball comes to rest in the fringe, and a subsequent shot by someone else deposits sand in front of or on top of your ball, you can remove that sand and re-create the lie and line of play that your stroke gave you.

 

Quote

 

13-2/8.5 

Player's Lie Affected by Sand from Partner's, Opponent's or Fellow-Competitor's Stroke from Bunker

Q.A's ball is on the apron between the green and a bunker. A's partner, opponent or fellow-competitor (B) plays from the bunker and deposits sand on and around A's ball. Is A entitled to any relief?

A.Yes. A is entitled to the lie and line of play he had when his ball came to rest. Accordingly, in equity (Rule 1-4), he is entitled to remove the sand deposited by B's stroke and lift his ball and clean it, without penalty.

 

 

[DrvFrShow]

Thank you.

[MacDutch]

But still no complete answer to my question. You can't be sure to leave the 'old' sand and only clean up the 'new' sand.

Is it 'recreate the old line of play as good as possible'. ?

Edited June 22, 2016 by MacDutch

[Asheville]

3 hours ago, MacDutch said:

But still no complete answer to my question. You can't be sure to leave the 'old' sand and only clean up the 'new' sand.

Is it 'recreate the old line of play as good as possible'. ?

You're allowed to remove the sand which resulted from the other player's stroke. The verbs restore and recreate are used a couple of places in the Rules, so if you wish to use them, it's unlikely to create a problem unless you're confronted by an English Major. :)

[Asheville]

Mac, see if this Decision helps:

13-2/8.5 Player's Lie Affected by Sand from Partner's, Opponent's or Fellow-Competitor's Stroke from Bunker

Q. A's ball is on the apron between the green and a bunker. A's partner, opponent or fellow-competitor (B) plays from the bunker and deposits sand on and around A's ball. Is A entitled to any relief?

A. Yes. A is entitled to the lie and line of play he had when his ball came to rest. Accordingly, in equity (Rule 1-4), he is entitled to remove the sand deposited by B's stroke and lift his ball and clean it, without penalty.

[DrvFrShow]

You're allowed to recreate your old lie to the best of your ability. It will not be possible to recreate your original lie exactly. You'll have to "eyeball it." There's no other way. If there's a rules official present, you should probably get them to supervise and approve your finished product. If you're not playing in a tournament, use your own judgement as to what is good enough. Golf is still supposed to be a game of honor.

If you think you might have unintentionally removed some of the original sand (which by the way it will be impossible not to do unless you leave the new sand there) confess to the golf gods and move on. You weren't cheating.

 

[Asheville]

1 hour ago, DrvFrShow said:

You're allowed to recreate your old lie to the best of your ability. It will not be possible to recreate your original lie exactly. You'll have to "eyeball it." There's no other way. If there's a rules official present, you should probably get them to supervise and approve your finished product. If you're not playing in a tournament, use your own judgement as to what is good enough. Golf is still supposed to be a game of honor.

If you think you might have unintentionally removed some of the original sand (which by the way it will be impossible not to do unless you leave the new sand there) confess to the golf gods and move on. You weren't cheating.

"Recreating" the lie is not a part of the relevant decision. Mention is made of "re-creating" elsewhere in the Rules for different circumstances.