Brexit - Leave or Remain

[paininthenuts]

Sorry, I know this has nothing to do with golf, and I very much hope the mods don't remove it. 

Today is one of the biggest days in UK history. As I am sure you have heard, we have a referendum on leaving the EU today. As Americans, can you imagine having a third party making most of you laws, and all of your regulations. Can you imagine your country having to give a third party a massive sum of money every year, only to get 40% of it back, and then be told what to spend it on. Worst of all, can you imagine having to let anyone into your country from 27 other countries, and then allowing them to settle even if they can't speak your language. The EU in Brussels employs over 10,000 people who earn more than our own prime minister, and  occupies a premises the size of a town. It is as corrupt as the Mafia, and prevents the UK from trading properly with countries outside the EU.

The good news is that most people over the age of 40 have some understanding of politics, and will vote OUT, but unfortunately many younger people are a little naive and have fallen foul to the governments threats. The Scots will also vote IN, but to be honest they aren't the brightest stars in the sky. It's going to be very close, so please give us a minutes thought, and keep your fingers crossed for the LEAVE campaign.

 

 

[Pete]

"a third party making most of you laws, and all of your regulations"

" It is as corrupt as the Mafia"

" The Scots will also vote IN, but to be honest they aren't the brightest stars in the sky"

Do you really believe this?

Do you really believe that the EU make most of the laws in the UK and all regulations? Do you really think the EU are like the mafia in the way they operate? Do you really think that Scottish people in general have lower intelligence than English people?

I cannot comprehend how you could truly believe these things as being facts. I'm actually a little shocked and embarrassed by that.

Fortunately your exaggerated and frankly bigoted views are shared by the minority of people in the UK and I suspect the minority around the globe including the US.

If we vote to leave or remain, we will accept the result. That is how democracy works. But please spare some time to think about whether what you believe is actually reflective of reality. You will find people more receptive of your opinions if they can see they relate to real things.

[mcanadiens]

I imagine they'll move this, but not remove this. All things politics may be discussed in The Grill Room.

[paininthenuts]

10 minutes ago, Pete said:

"a third party making most of you laws, and all of your regulations"

" It is as corrupt as the Mafia"

" The Scots will also vote IN, but to be honest they aren't the brightest stars in the sky"

Do you really believe this?

Do you really believe that the EU make most of the laws in the UK and all regulations? Do you really think the EU are like the mafia in the way they operate? Do you really think that Scottish people in general have lower intelligence than English people?

I cannot comprehend how you could truly believe these things as being facts. I'm actually a little shocked and embarrassed by that.

Fortunately your exaggerated and frankly bigoted views are shared by the minority of people in the UK and I suspect the minority around the globe including the US.

If we vote to leave or remain, we will accept the result. That is how democracy works. But please spare some time to think about whether what you believe is actually reflective of reality. You will find people more receptive of your opinions if they can see they relate to real things.

Everything said is true, END OF

[krupa]

There's a whole sub-forum for non-golf related topics.  Between Trump and Orlando it gets more activity than the rest of the site.

Everything thing in your post sounds like FUD* tinged with xenophobia.  The coverage I have seen makes me believe that you'll be worse off for leaving.  But I have no vote so my opinion is worth the paper it's printed on.

FUD = fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

[mcanadiens]

I don't know enough about it to offer a real opinion on it.

Over here in the US, the media stories I've seen say that this will cause economic upheaval for just about all concerned. In the typical, one-sided manner that we've come used to, the other side of the argument gets a short-shrift.

[Jeremie Boop]

9 minutes ago, paininthenuts said:

Everything said is true, END OF

Stating that an entire country is consisted of "not the brightest stars in the sky" is most definitely not "true". I understand that this is a very important issue, but when you make a blanket statement like that it tends to color the rest of your post in a very unflattering light.

[Gunther]

Big doings in Britain today with the tightly contested Brexit vote.  Curious what our European members are thinking about it.

I don't know much about it but my natural world view leads me to opt for leaving.  I believe national sovereignty is important.

[Abu3baid]

I am hoping they stay.  The last thing this world needs is more economic turbulence.  BTW what I heard was that they give what, something like 2% or their budget to the EU?  

The EU also gives opportunities to British folk who want to work in another country in the EU without having a visa.. They can travel where they want, the street works both ways.. Yeah, so they don't get as much back, isn't that a good thing?  They could be like Greece!!

I'm hoping for a stay vote!

[chriswuk]

I don't want to start huge debate on whether we should remain or leave, but I will say that I voted to Remain this morning.

The main reason for myself voting this way is that the company I work for rely quite heavily on a good relationship with the EU. We trade heavily with them and I can see a vote to leave having a negative impact (especially short term when the value of the GBP drops).

With regards to national sovereignty I will say this. Leaving the EU does not guarantee that we will get full control over our own legislation. To be part of any trade agreement with the EU involves abiding by their rules, two of the which are: The free movement of people, and abiding by their regulations with regards to products etc. So even if we do leave, we will not be able to abide by our own rules if we still want to trade with the EU.
What WILL happen though, is that by leaving we will no longer have any say whatsoever in any new regulations or legislation passed by the EU, even if it affects us and our trade. This seems like a trade-off where we simply cannot come out ahead.

I'm sure people in the Leave campaign will dispute what I have said above, and they are free to do so, it is only my opinion after all. The uncertainty of the future outside the EU worries me a bit, I am quite happy at the minute and I worry that any negative economic impact would affect me a lot.

(Sorry for the long post, I didn't originally intend to rant as much)

[jamo]

Merged a few threads.

I hope the UK remains in the EU.

That is all.

[Gunther]

5 minutes ago, jamo said:

Merged a few threads.

I hope the UK remains in the EU.

That is all.

Could you pls fix the title?  Seems my auto-correct messed up and I didn't catch it in time

[David in FL]

29 minutes ago, Gunther said:

I don't know much about it but my natural world view leads me to opt for leaving.  I believe national sovereignty is important.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.  But I'm honestly too ignorant of the actual issues and consequences to develop an informed opinion.

[jamo]

12 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Could you pls fix the title?  Seems my auto-correct messed up and I didn't catch it in time

I'd assumed "Brevity" was what you were going for since your OP was short and to the point.

[chriswuk]

2 minutes ago, David in FL said:

Pretty much sums up my thoughts as well.  But I'm honestly too ignorant of the actual issues and consequences to develop an informed opinion.

I worry that a lot of people in the UK are also ignorantly touting the "sovereignty" theme without thinking about the consequences (not meaning to offend you in any way).

The OP said "Worst of all, can you imagine having to let anyone into your country from 27 other countries, and then allowing them to settle even if they can't speak your language". In all seriousness I worry about what would happen without all of the migrant workers who live and work in the UK. A huge number of NHS workers are migrant workers, performing jobs and tasks that many of our unemployed national citizens are simply incapable or unwilling to perform. If we shut our borders, and force migrant workers to leave, the NHS would likely crumble; and the same people shouting about national sovereignty would riot and complain about our lack of health service.

They also go on about making our own rules, but as per my post above we would not be fully free from EU legislation and regulations if we wished to enter a trade agreement with them. The UK still makes and controls the vast majority of its own laws anyway.

[boogielicious]

John Oliver covered this.

 

[Abu3baid]

23 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

John Oliver covered this.

 

Yeah and what a marvelous job he has done! It's funny how he answered all the points @paininthenuts tried to make.

[paininthenuts]

The man is a complete idiot, now watch this