"Winter rules" and HCP

[DaveP043]

15 minutes ago, jkelley9 said:

@DaveP043 thanks for the info. I feel like there's a grey area here. I think that the examples you gave about being a playing lesson, multiple drivers, etc don't conform to the rules of golf to begin with, so I don't think those examples would even be in the discretionary category (committee)? 

What I'm talking about is me being me and saying "I'm going to play as much to the Rules of Golf that I possibly can" with a group of fellas, and not do anything intentional to sabotage my own score to be force-omitted from being recorded. 

For example, say I'm playing with a bunch of guys who play to the Rules of Golf and keep accurate handicaps. We finish hole #18 and I've played to the rules of golf, myself, as have they. Say I do keep a handicap (but we know I don't, but say I was sitting on a 10.1 HCI and I cared about soon becoming a single-digit player [of course, the definition of a 'single-digit' player varies between people... but I digress]) but I wanted to go out and just have a good time and not worry about it and just to have fun and drink a few beers (which I also think is acceptable in recording rounds). Do the Rules of Golf say that I have to post that round, if I'm (wanting to) keep a valid, accurate handicap?

The short answer is yes.  Again, put yourself on the Handicap Committee.  You're charged with verifying that all appropriate rounds are posted, so you regularly compare the tee sheet with the scores posting.  You (The Committee) can see that on the same day that @jkelley9 played, a foursome of suspected sandbaggers also played, and none of them posted scores either.  Can the Committee legitimately question the sandbaggers about non-posting, without questioning @jkelley9 the same way?  I know, this can't stop the sandbaggers from posting high scores, but making sure they post a score is a big part of the system.

This is one big difference between the USGA system and the CONGU system used in England.  The CONGU system uses primarily scores from competitions (presumably played with full effort and attention), while the USGA system uses nearly all scores.  Consequently, the USGA system inevitably uses some scores played the way you describe, more for fun than for real scoring effort.  Maybe I've missed something in the rules, maybe someone will point it out, because what you'd like to see seems reasonable to me, but I don't think its acceptable.

[jkelley9]

1 minute ago, DaveP043 said:

The short answer is yes.  Again, put yourself on the Handicap Committee.  You're charged with verifying that all appropriate rounds are posted, so you regularly compare the tee sheet with the scores posting.  You (The Committee) can see that on the same day that @jkelley9 played, a foursome of suspected sandbaggers also played, and none of them posted scores either.  Can the Committee legitimately question the sandbaggers about non-posting, without questioning @jkelley9 the same way?  I know, this can't stop the sandbaggers from posting high scores, but making sure they post a score is a big part of the system.

This is one big difference between the USGA system and the CONGU system used in England.  The CONGU system uses primarily scores from competitions (presumably played with full effort and attention), while the USGA system uses nearly all scores.  Consequently, the USGA system inevitably uses some scores played the way you describe, more for fun than for real scoring effort.  Maybe I've missed something in the rules, maybe someone will point it out, because what you'd like to see seems reasonable to me, but I don't think its acceptable.

Ah, thank you for the added clarification. I suppose if I were to keep a USGA handicap I could just tell myself that only my 10 best of 20 scores are averaged so really I shouldn't be that concerned about going out and having fun for a round with some buddies. 

The sandbagging thing does make sense. I'm not in that environment at all so I'm naive to those considerations. 

Thanks again.

[iacas]

If you play the round by the rules of golf you're supposed to post it.

If you go out and hit four balls on almost every shot, don't hole out half the time, move your ball around to different lies, etc. then you can't post because you didn't play 7 or 13 holes by the rules.

That really doesn't have to do with the OP, so…