Club Champion Clubs are Expensive

[Golfingdad]

  On 11/1/2016 at 8:23 PM, Gunther said:

Interesting about pured shafts, I know really nothing about it, never had it done but sure sounds damned important.  Probably 2 points off my index right there.

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LMAO.  2 is probably really conservative. 

[Pretzel]

First off, drop the shaft puring. It doesn't make one lick of difference for anybody except a machine, since nobody has a swing that's identical with every club in the bag and shafts nowadays are manufactured well enough that the potential difference is very tiny. It's just a marketing gimmick honestly to get you to pay more for installation.

As for the fact that you're purchasing an additional set of shafts, you're absolutely right that they use those in their installs for other customers. If one customer orders on the same day as you and wants KBS shafts, they'll order your Mizuno irons with KBS shafts installed and then put those shafts into the clubs of the other customer once they're pulled out of your irons. Since the set of JPX 900's only costs them about $900 or less to order, and they're charging you $800, that means you're selling those 7 shafts to them at a price of only $14.29 per shaft (when the retail value of them is generally $30-40 apiece). Good deal for them, not so much for you.

In addition to that, their installation price is downright criminal! The most expensive price I can find online for a Paderson iron shaft is $60, meaning they're already charging you $40 per shaft to install them. Even at decent golf shops you'd pay half that much per club usually if you provide the materials.

My recommendation, over having these guys rip you off completely, is that you find a set of JPX 900's (they're $1,200 if you buy a full set directly from Mizuno), purchase the shafts and grips yourself, and have a different place put them together for you. The cost breakdown, at the most expensive (if you didn't find any deals on the JPX 900's or anything else), would be as follows:

Set of JPX 900's - $899

7 Paderson Iron Shafts - $420

7 Grips - $70

Installation - $105

Total - $1,494

It'll probably be ~$100 cheaper still since you wouldn't buy a full set of the Mizuno irons, it just sounds like you want 4-PW (full set comes as 3-PW)

Worst case scenario is that you walk out the door with $500 in savings and a bunch of brand new shafts the Mizuno's originally came with to sell and recoup even more money (if you order the irons with the Nippon or KBS shafts they'll likely sell reasonably soon and for a good price). Best case scenario is that you call up Mizuno and they agree to sell you just the clubheads, the Paderson iron shafts don't end up costing you the $60 a shaft (again, that's the HIGHEST price I found for them), and you can save hundreds more on top of that.

If you're worried about lofts and lies, you'll be relieved to hear that nearly every manufacturer of golf clubs checks those prior to them shipping (especially since you can order them at whatever reasonable loft/lie combination you want usually). Yours are likely off from 8 years of use more than anything else. Go test out the Mizuno irons you liked with the shafts that Mizuno offers as stock options and you might find that one of them fits you in a manner virtually identical to the Paderson shaft (a very expensive shaft, to be sure). The Mizuno graphite shafts will have a small upcharge per club, probably ~$20-40 per club, but even at a $40 per club upcharge for the shaft you want from Mizuno you'd walk away with a set that cost you less than $1,200 and requires no assembly or middleman.

You have your fitting specifications from this company. I would recommend you go test those Mizuno irons at another retailer and see which of the stock Mizuno options works the best for you, and determine then whether or not the minute potential gains are worth the extra $1,000 or so to have exactly what the first company recommended.

[iacas]

  On 11/1/2016 at 10:51 PM, Pretzel said:

Worst case scenario is that you walk out the door with $200 in savings and a bunch of brand new shafts the Mizuno's originally came with to sell and recoup even more money (if you order the irons with the Nippon or KBS shafts they'll likely sell reasonably soon and for a good price). Best case scenario is that you call up Mizuno and they agree to sell you just the clubheads, the Paderson iron shafts don't end up costing you the $60 a shaft (again, that's the HIGHEST price I found for them), and you can save hundreds more on top of that.

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Uh, this. Yes.

[WUTiger]

  On 11/1/2016 at 8:23 PM, Gunther said:

I have R7 TP irons, which are cast and even they get a little out of whack over 3 seasons or so.  I can only imagine forged would be more significant.

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One of the women at our golf club plays small-college golf with Mizuno forged irons. She gets the loft and lie adjusted once in January, and again between college golf season and the summer tournaments.

[JxQx]

  On 11/1/2016 at 7:39 PM, GolfLug said:

And sell it on ebay for a grand total of $100 or something?...

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Yeah, depending on the shaft offerings it could be more. Why throw away money?

[skeedawg]

  On 11/1/2016 at 10:51 PM, Pretzel said:

First off, drop the shaft puring. It doesn't make one lick of difference for anybody except a machine, since nobody has a swing that's identical with every club in the bag and shafts nowadays are manufactured well enough that the potential difference is very tiny. It's just a marketing gimmick honestly to get you to pay more for installation.

As for the fact that you're purchasing an additional set of shafts, you're absolutely right that they use those in their installs for other customers. If one customer orders on the same day as you and wants KBS shafts, they'll order your Mizuno irons with KBS shafts installed and then put those shafts into the clubs of the other customer once they're pulled out of your irons. Since the set of JPX 900's only costs them about $900 or less to order, and they're charging you $800, that means you're selling those 7 shafts to them at a price of only $14.29 per shaft (when the retail value of them is generally $30-40 apiece). Good deal for them, not so much for you.

In addition to that, their installation price is downright criminal! The most expensive price I can find online for a Paderson iron shaft is $60, meaning they're already charging you $40 per shaft to install them. Even at decent golf shops you'd pay half that much per club usually if you provide the materials.

My recommendation, over having these guys rip you off completely, is that you find a set of JPX 900's (they're $1,200 if you buy a full set directly from Mizuno), purchase the shafts and grips yourself, and have a different place put them together for you. The cost breakdown, at the most expensive (if you didn't find any deals on the JPX 900's or anything else), would be as follows:

Set of JPX 900's - $899

7 Paderson Iron Shafts - $420

7 Grips - $70

Installation - $105

Total - $1,494

It'll probably be ~$100 cheaper still since you wouldn't buy a full set of the Mizuno irons, it just sounds like you want 4-PW (full set comes as 3-PW)

Worst case scenario is that you walk out the door with $500 in savings and a bunch of brand new shafts the Mizuno's originally came with to sell and recoup even more money (if you order the irons with the Nippon or KBS shafts they'll likely sell reasonably soon and for a good price). Best case scenario is that you call up Mizuno and they agree to sell you just the clubheads, the Paderson iron shafts don't end up costing you the $60 a shaft (again, that's the HIGHEST price I found for them), and you can save hundreds more on top of that.

If you're worried about lofts and lies, you'll be relieved to hear that nearly every manufacturer of golf clubs checks those prior to them shipping (especially since you can order them at whatever reasonable loft/lie combination you want usually). Yours are likely off from 8 years of use more than anything else. Go test out the Mizuno irons you liked with the shafts that Mizuno offers as stock options and you might find that one of them fits you in a manner virtually identical to the Paderson shaft (a very expensive shaft, to be sure). The Mizuno graphite shafts will have a small upcharge per club, probably ~$20-40 per club, but even at a $40 per club upcharge for the shaft you want from Mizuno you'd walk away with a set that cost you less than $1,200 and requires no assembly or middleman.

You have your fitting specifications from this company. I would recommend you go test those Mizuno irons at another retailer and see which of the stock Mizuno options works the best for you, and determine then whether or not the minute potential gains are worth the extra $1,000 or so to have exactly what the first company recommended.

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Yes this! I did a fitting with Mizuno at a local Golftec and the most I was going to be charged, with a free wedge was $1300 for 4-PW, AW. Same irons as mentioned above. This included the grips I wanted, and the lie adjustments needed. Sounds like the point is you definitely can get what you want without having to break the bank.

[Pretzel]

  On 11/2/2016 at 2:54 PM, skeedawg said:

Yes this! I did a fitting with Mizuno at a local Golftec and the most I was going to be charged, with a free wedge was $1300 for 4-PW, AW. Same irons as mentioned above. This included the grips I wanted, and the lie adjustments needed. Sounds like the point is you definitely can get what you want without having to break the bank.

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One important thing to note is that this is the price for the forged version of the irons. The standard "hot metal" version of them is $900 retail for the full set, which is undoubtedly what you were going to be ordering from Club Champion if they were going to have you pay $800 for the clubs (they wouldn't pay you $400 for the set of shafts from the $1,200 set of clubs, that would mean they'd pay you $60 per shaft for shafts that retail at half that price). This means you could save $800 and still get the fancier version of the irons if you want.

[skeedawg]

  On 11/2/2016 at 5:51 PM, Pretzel said:

One important thing to note is that this is the price for the forged version of the irons. The standard "hot metal" version of them is $900 retail for the full set, which is undoubtedly what you were going to be ordering from Club Champion if they were going to have you pay $800 for the clubs (they wouldn't pay you $400 for the set of shafts from the $1,200 set of clubs, that would mean they'd pay you $60 per shaft for shafts that retail at half that price). This means you could save $800 and still get the fancier version of the irons if you want.

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That is right and I have to say the Forged irons felt amazing. Solid and smooth off the club. I personally didn't like the feel of the Hot Metal version of the irons.

[allenc]

  On 11/1/2016 at 10:51 PM, Pretzel said:

As for the fact that you're purchasing an additional set of shafts, you're absolutely right that they use those in their installs for other customers. If one customer orders on the same day as you and wants KBS shafts, they'll order your Mizuno irons with KBS shafts installed and then put those shafts into the clubs of the other customer once they're pulled out of your irons. Since the set of JPX 900's only costs them about $900 or less to order, and they're charging you $800, that means you're selling those 7 shafts to them at a price of only $14.29 per shaft (when the retail value of them is generally $30-40 apiece). Good deal for them, not so much for you.

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I poked around the Mizuno customer service forum and it's actually worse than this.  As it turns out they will not sell the heads alone, but they will sell the head attached to an uncut shaft with the grips separate and uninstalled.  So Club Champion is likely ordering the grips I want from Mizuno which are included in the price of the club, then charging me full retail for them as if they had to buy them separately.

Also Club Champion is charging exactly retail for the irons, not a little less as you implied.  So they are making 100% of whatever the extra value of the pulled shafts and new grips are.

I can see them charging a little extra for the build and claim it's because they do it super extra carefully and with love.  Some people with the cash to burn might feel a little better about their clubs this way.  But semi scamming you by charging you for parts that they get to keep leaves me with a sour taste.

  On 11/2/2016 at 5:51 PM, Pretzel said:

One important thing to note is that this is the price for the forged version of the irons. The standard "hot metal" version of them is $900 retail for the full set, which is undoubtedly what you were going to be ordering from Club Champion if they were going to have you pay $800 for the clubs (they wouldn't pay you $400 for the set of shafts from the $1,200 set of clubs, that would mean they'd pay you $60 per shaft for shafts that retail at half that price). This means you could save $800 and still get the fancier version of the irons if you want.

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Just fyi the guy talking about the JPX forged wasn't the op, that's me.

  On 11/2/2016 at 5:54 PM, skeedawg said:

That is right and I have to say the Forged irons felt amazing. Solid and smooth off the club. I personally didn't like the feel of the Hot Metal version of the irons.

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The JPX forged are very nice.  For that style head though I did very well at the fitting with the Ping i E1 which is slender and has a very soft feel.  They were a close second in performance to the regular JPXs with the same shaft.  I might even try them again before deciding, but they are both great.

Either way I think I will just find the best shaft the manufacturer offers and trust their factory build to my specs and save myself a grand.

[Pretzel]

  On 11/2/2016 at 10:23 PM, allenc said:

Just fyi the guy talking about the JPX forged wasn't the op, that's me.

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Yes, I was just clarifying the difference between the pricing in the two different models of the JPX 900. Since two different prices had been listed in the same thread for what might appear to be the same iron I wanted to clarify for any readers the reasoning for the two different prices is all.

  On 11/2/2016 at 10:23 PM, allenc said:

Either way I think I will just find the best shaft the manufacturer offers and trust their factory build to my specs and save myself a grand.

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I agree that, so long as you have your proper lofts and lie, most of the "standard" shaft options (KBS, Project X, Nippon, etc.) will be able to fit you without requiring going to something exotic. Even if you do choose an exotic shaft, it's almost never worth the cost to buy it from a lot of the custom fitting places because they have upcharges throughout the whole process that are hidden if you don't look closely.

I'm personally a big fan of the KBS Tour shafts, since they give me the best combination of dispersion and feel. Project X gave me the same dispersion but I didn't like how they felt as much. Ultimately it comes down to what works for each individual golfer though, so you'll probably want to go compare everything again (but likely not at the same place, they may be displeased you chose not to purchase from them). Take pictures of the numbers and dispersion pattern from the best club/shaft combo from each manufacturer too, that way you have something to look over later when making your final decision rather than just going off what you remember.