Do you form a game plan?

[JxQx]

I game plan kind of on the fly, it's not something I do before the round really. If it's a place I've played before I have a pretty good idea on how I'm going to play the hole given the conditions and how I'm playing. If it is a place I haven't played before I typically check the yardages and hole shape on the scorecard to get an idea of the tee shots I'm going to play and make the final decision once I get to the hole.

[Hacker James]

9 hours ago, boogielicious said:

 I see Julia wearing a camo jacket and helmet circa 1943 peering down the first fairway with field glasses waiting for a report from the forward scouts about positions of enemy fairway bunkers.

That was General George Patton, peering across the fields of Mesopitania reminiscing over some battle he participated in led by Julius Caesar and his legions in a by gone era.

[Blackjack Don]

At this point, somebody needs to chime in with Mike Tyson's famous quote: "Everybody has a plan until they get hit in the mouth." It's easy to see from the math--and I could show you those exact formulas in poker. We call it Expected Value. Even if one doesn't know how to do the exact maths, a winner better know what it means when he's facing a decision on the river.

Most of the people I've played with haven't got a clue. I can see how I'm closer to them on the golf course. I am starting to think about it more, but I get hit in the mouth a lot off the tee.

However, perhaps there is another way. The 400 yard par four? I'm pretty good from 100 yards in. Very confident of my ability to finish the hole. It's the tee shot which most often blows me up, but I'm improving. So, since I might hit a driver 240 and 180/20 OOB, why not play a five iron for 170, a seven iron for a buck forty, and an easy wedge to the middle of the green--two putt for one over, which would be par for me? I can do this more and more often. Why don't I do it? Because, well, who does this? 

This is what makes golf interesting. No matter how good you get, it's never good enough. Gimme a few more months of working on the fundamentals, and I'll be ready to challenge that par 4.

Thanks, all. This is good stuff, even for a hacker like me.

[Hacker James]

Yes, back in the day........I would take a couple of mid irons , wedge. and do well. It's just something you resist in doing I suppose. Not unlike the mind set in hesitating to move to the forward tees. There is no way I am going to reach any par 5 in 2 and more likely than not, struggle to get there in regulation. My anemic drives of 200-210 just ain't gonna cut it no mo.

A year or so ago, I could get it out there around 220-240 on  regular basis, but now it simply is not going to happen.  I feel awkward when getting paired up with anyone if they are using whites or blues, and usually will just join them rather than move up. It feels like I am in a fish bowl, and they are probably not even watching. Furthermore, why should I care?  Hard to do.

Edited December 16, 2016 by Hacker James

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

However, perhaps there is another way. The 400 yard par four? I'm pretty good from 100 yards in. Very confident of my ability to finish the hole. It's the tee shot which most often blows me up, but I'm improving. So, since I might hit a driver 240 and 180/20 OOB, why not play a five iron for 170, a seven iron for a buck forty, and an easy wedge to the middle of the green--two putt for one over, which would be par for me? I can do this more and more often. Why don't I do it? Because, well, who does this? 

I liken the strategy of choosing your "Shades of Grey" in making your Decision Maps from LSW as playing a game of dice (with one single die) and giving you 7:1 odds. You might lose the first six or seven rolls, but if I keep giving you 7:1 odds you're going to play as long as I let you.

Golfers far too often concern themselves with the short-term. They over-value certain things.

And you're probably not as good from 100 yards as you think. PGA Tour pros only hit the green from 100-125 about 3/4 of the time.

That's not to say on a particular hole with your Shot Zones that what you're saying is not the proper play. Maybe it is. If so, your driver is likely a glaring weakness.

[Hacker James]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

 

And you're probably not as good from 100 yards as you think. PGA Tour pros only hit the green from 100-125 about 3/4 of the time.

That's an interesting statistic. It makes sense though. From my own personal experience, I am usually right or left but pin high (or often, short) from those distances.

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, Blackjack Don said:

Why don't I do it?

 

Because a 30 handicap golfer will not reliably hit the fairway with the his 5-iron or driver (making the point moot), in addition to likely being unable to consistently average (including all of the bad shots, not just the good ones) those distances with their five and seven irons. They will also not hit the center of the green with their wedges from 90 yards and call it "easy", considering the PGA Tour average from closer than @iacas mentioned, in the 75-100 yard range, is still only 83% or so. 

The better plan for almost every golfer will be to hit that driver and attempt to get at least nGIR, provided the odds of them hitting it OB or in a hazard are not exceptionally high.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Blackjack Don said:

However, perhaps there is another way. The 400 yard par four? I'm pretty good from 100 yards in. Very confident of my ability to finish the hole. It's the tee shot which most often blows me up, but I'm improving. So, since I might hit a driver 240 and 180/20 OOB, why not play a five iron for 170, a seven iron for a buck forty, and an easy wedge to the middle of the green--two putt for one over, which would be par for me? I can do this more and more often. Why don't I do it? Because, well, who does this? 

I get what you're saying, but the best scoring opportunity comes with longer tee shots. Expecting to make bogey is the best strategy for a double.

First of all, leaving yourself more distance than your tee shot is not a good strategy. I would almost back off the driver with an "80%" swing expecting it to get something like 192 yards or so, but straight rather than hit an all out 5i to get your average 170 yard distance. You gained 22 yards by taking a nice easy driver into play.

So, now that you've made your 192 yard average "short driver" shot, you're left with let's say another 5i shot or preferably a hybrid. That might go another 170 yards?

You're now left with a chip shot from 20 to 40 yards. You now have a real chance at an up and down.

As a 30+ handicap, you might want to consider shorter courses until you sort out your driver issues. An average 400 yard par 4 is perfect for someone who drives 240 on average including those 180/20 yard "tree" shots.

 

12 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Because a 30 handicap golfer will not reliably hit the fairway with the his 5-iron or driver (making the point moot), in addition to likely being unable to consistently average (including all of the bad shots, not just the good ones) those distances with their five and seven irons. They will also not hit the center of the green with their wedges from 90 yards and call it "easy", considering the PGA Tour average from closer than @iacas mentioned, in the 75-100 yard range, is still only 83% or so. 

The better plan for almost every golfer will be to hit that driver and attempt to get at least nGIR, provided the odds of them hitting it OB or in a hazard are not exceptionally high.

Good points from both of you.

[graham57]

My wife won a series of competitions 2 years ago and won a trip to the Dominican Republic, where we played two tournament rounds on the fantastic courses Teeth of the Dog and Dye Fore. We were playing with some really good golfers (small single digits), and I noticed that, on the practice round the day before the first tournament, they were making copious notes on each hole. When I asked what they were writing down, they told me: which club to play off the tee, whether to stay short or risk going long, which side of the fairway to aim for, etc..

I thought this was a great idea and promptly did the same thing on the second practice round. The only problem was that the organizers announced in the evening that we would be playing from different tees the next day, so my notes were useless!

I assume that good golfers do this all the time, but it had never occurred to me before.

[JustJack2016]

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 7:54 PM, caniac6 said:

Find it?

Do you give lessons?  I have just about all of the skills you mentioned...EXCEPT find it.  That's a biggie!

[JustJack2016]

 

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 1:14 PM, Lihu said:

They will also not hit the center of the green with their wedges from 90 yards and call it "easy", considering the PGA Tour average from closer than @iacas mentioned, in the 75-100 yard range, is still only 83% or so

The stats make most people scratch their head and say, "how is it possible that a touring pro, who hits thousands of those shots, only hits the green 83 percent of the time when I'm averaging close to that with average practice sessions?"  

It's important to note that tour pros CAN hit the green at a HIGHER percentage if all they wanted/needed was hit the green.  They're trying to hit a much smaller target area to set up their birdie (or salvage the hole).  Sometimes they're avoiding certain spots (i.e. the pin is back left and they don't want to be right of the pin)...so they aim for a spot, maybe tug it a little, and the ball winds up 15' from the hole (but on the fringe).  It wasn't their best shot, but it didn't kill them.

BOTTOM LINE:  You see their wedge stats, but I highly recommend not wagering against their ability to "just hit the green" from 90 yards out greater than 83 percent of the time.  I read somewhere **not really** that the percentage of greens a pro can hit from 90 yards out varies based on their boredom level and the number of dollars in a bettor's pocket.  Another factor is their playing conditions are a little tougher (not the fairways, but the rough and pin placements) than the average golfer sees during their outings.  

[Lihu]

14 hours ago, JustJack2016 said:

 

The stats make most people scratch their head and say, "how is it possible that a touring pro, who hits thousands of those shots, only hits the green 83 percent of the time when I'm averaging close to that with average practice sessions?"  

It's important to note that tour pros CAN hit the green at a HIGHER percentage if all they wanted/needed was hit the green.  They're trying to hit a much smaller target area to set up their birdie (or salvage the hole).  Sometimes they're avoiding certain spots (i.e. the pin is back left and they don't want to be right of the pin)...so they aim for a spot, maybe tug it a little, and the ball winds up 15' from the hole (but on the fringe).  It wasn't their best shot, but it didn't kill them.

BOTTOM LINE:  You see their wedge stats, but I highly recommend not wagering against their ability to "just hit the green" from 90 yards out greater than 83 percent of the time.  I read somewhere **not really** that the percentage of greens a pro can hit from 90 yards out varies based on their boredom level and the number of dollars in a bettor's pocket.  Another factor is their playing conditions are a little tougher (not the fairways, but the rough and pin placements) than the average golfer sees during their outings.  

The touring greens are really difficult to hold for all kinds of reasons, so that's likely another reason they sometimes miss greens. I certainly won't disagree that they can hit OUR greens with a little bit more frequency.

[Strat-Pack Rick]

On 12/4/2016 at 4:11 PM, Hoganman1 said:

I play the same course most of the time. Occasionally, I'll change which tees I play for some variety, but it's basically the same course for every round. I usually set a scoring goal before each round, but I don't actually have a game plan. After 50 years of playing I suddenly realized mapping out each shot on each hole would probably help me score better.  I realize things don't always go as planned especially in golf. However, formulating a plan is what the pros do every day. That has to work better than simply hitting the ball, hoping one can find it, and then hitting it again. Your thoughts?

I totally agree with you on making a plan ! I just started doing this myself and have seen small results. I know the results will be better as my plans get better. Way to go on your thinking. I bought the LSW book which opened my eyes to "playing the game of golf", not just hitting the ball as far as i can. Shot zones and knowing where to be aggressive and where to play smart is the difference between scoring and getting beat up. Many props to you and good luck buds !! Check out LSW, its full of great stuff to help your "plan" and helps prioritize your shot selection. I hope this thread grows some legs and everybody chips in and shares there plan making skills. Hit Em Good Bud !!

[Strat-Pack Rick]

I straight love this topic !! Let it rip boys/girls !!  Its the one topic that no matter your skill level with the clubs, you can improve. I have a hole that is gettable with a good drive and entices you with the shot of your life  with a bad drive. If you hit the 230 yd driver , you can go for the green, no problem. If you hit it real good though,250yds, your approach is from an extreme down hill lie ! I will never forget my first par here. I made the hero shot and landed on the green . I usually "should" lay-up and take my medicine though. If you hit it short, say 190 yds , That hybrid just dares you to pull the cover off. I have several balls in that water hazard. Ive gone "Tin Cup" from that hill a lot . I just cant help it sometimes. Im learning though !

The fairway is downhill from the 184 mark down to the water. The green is elevated from the water about 40ft. Funnest yet scariest hole ive got !!! So much fun !!!

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Strat-Pack Rick said:

I straight love this topic !! Let it rip boys/girls !!  Its the one topic that no matter your skill level with the clubs, you can improve. I have a hole that is gettable with a good drive and entices you with the shot of your life  with a bad drive. If you hit the 230 yd driver , you can go for the green, no problem. If you hit it real good though,250yds, your approach is from an extreme down hill lie ! I will never forget my first par here. I made the hero shot and landed on the green . I usually "should" lay-up and take my medicine though. If you hit it short, say 190 yds , That hybrid just dares you to pull the cover off. I have several balls in that water hazard. Ive gone "Tin Cup" from that hill a lot . I just cant help it sometimes. Im learning though !

The fairway is downhill from the 184 mark down to the water. The green is elevated from the water about 40ft. Funnest yet scariest hole ive got !!! So much fun !!!

The other option is to play from the white tees and end up closer to the "79" mark from the drive. . .Ending up on a steep downhill lie with a pond in front of the green kind of beckons for a missed green.

IDK how I would play this hole from the blue tees, even though my average drive would put me closer to the "79" mark, it would likely not be straight enough to land the narrow section of the fairway. So, given that FL rough can be ankle deep Bermuda grass, the trees probably have alligators lurking about and who knows what lives in or near the water, I'd probably go with a hybrid off the tee and play something from 184.

[Strat-Pack Rick]

9 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The other option is to play from the white tees and end up closer to the "79" mark from the drive. . .Ending up on a steep downhill lie with a pond in front of the green kind of beckons for a missed green.

IDK how I would play this hole from the blue tees, even though my average drive would put me closer to the "79" mark, it would likely not be straight enough to land the narrow section of the fairway. So, given that FL rough can be ankle deep Bermuda grass, the trees probably have alligators lurking about and who knows what lives in or near the water, I'd probably go with a hybrid off the tee and play something from 184.

Well you have the right idea, except for the alligators, haha. Its a fun hole that has many ways to approach it. Its the one hole that I dont like driving it to far. Its a driver hole for sure but if you get a good one that rolls down the hill....boy its a tough shot. Your right leg is bent to you belt almost. Its so down hill. If you are ever in the area let me know. Its so much fun man !!