Time to move up from SGI to GI irons?

[WUTiger]

On 2/13/2017 at 1:38 PM, proto said:

...for a person who hitting a GI with more offset is going to fade the ball since they are not used to having to close the face. since there clubs are already set with more offset, person playing a blade with less offset will tend to draw or hook it if they pick up a GI club...

You need to see what new square looks like at address.

Let's say you're switching from one iron model to another. Even if both are GI or Players, it's a good idea to do a "square check" to see how how the newer club look at address. If you have a floor with square tiles in it, you can set the newer clubhead down and see what the clubhead looks like at address when it is perpendicular to line of flight.

When I have switched iron sets, I found I needed to retrain my eye to see what square or slightly open (for draw) looked like with the new irons.

[Hacker James]

I am not sure I buy into the argument that using clubs with offset will only be a band aid for a swing flaw.  If you started out with the offsets in the first place, you will have learned how to effectively hit the ball and have a swing built around that and therefore is not "flawed". Then if you switch to a square face, would you not be only having to manipulate your swing to accommodate the change? Who is to say which is better? If your natural swing works, then there is no manipulation.

I do concede the point that going "to" an offset would require some swing changes and from that viewpoint might be considered a band-aid.  I also would agree that the offset face does not really have much effect but is mainly an alignment thing or optics.  Still, the club makers, use the "extra time to square the face" mantra.  I would be interested in what someone like Tom Wishon has to say about it.

[proto]

On 2/21/2017 at 3:46 PM, iacas said:

Because the offset leads you to set up with the clubface pointing left, probably.

because Gi clubs have more offset then my blades and when i hit a Gi i have to open the face up some so it won't go left

thats why i trust my feet position and my hips lined up where i want it to go more then working about where the face is pointing at. thats why you cant jus point straight at the flag if your hitting off the side of a hill or uneven lie cause that ball won't go straight if your aiming right at the flag 

[proto]

21 hours ago, WUTiger said:

You need to see what new square looks like at address.

Let's say you're switching from one iron model to another. Even if both are GI or Players, it's a good idea to do a "square check" to see how how the newer club look at address. If you have a floor with square tiles in it, you can set the newer clubhead down and see what the clubhead looks like at address when it is perpendicular to line of flight.

When I have switched iron sets, I found I needed to retrain my eye to see what square or slightly open (for draw) looked like with the new irons.

see i have a cousin who never got his irons fitted for him and i told him when you get fitted they are going to setup your clubs to your swing. and he kept fading all of his shots while he was getting fitted because he wasn't closing the face, so they put lil more offset on his irons and then he started to hit all his shots straight. week goes by one day he kept hooking his shots every swing. i asked what are you doing different and he said trying to close the face. i said it's prob where when you got fitted and didn't close the face at impact, they added more offset. i told him don't close the face, the rest of the day he was throwing darts. 

[iacas]

33 minutes ago, proto said:

because Gi clubs have more offset then my blades and when i hit a Gi i have to open the face up some so it won't go left

That's what I said.

[MrFreeze]

I have found that my swing path is clean an usually pure. I started with Mizuno knock offs. Then went to the A3's from AdamsGolf. Then went to the Ping K15's. I am still there. I finally learned how to close the face, engage my hips, and finish the swing path. I hit it the same with a blade, GI, or the SGIs. The difference I am noticing is that the GI clubs seem a bit longer than my SGI's.
Taylormade M2's (reg flex) with graphite shafts are the longest by a good margin.
I have a set of Walter Hagen irons that I found. I hit them fine. But they are an older steel shaft and get me tired sooner than the graphite.

Thank you all for this wonderful discussion and all of the explanations.

I'll post pix later of the oldy-time set I am amassing.
Ben Hogan Driver
Walter Hagen 3w, 5w, 7w
Walter Hagen 4 - PW
Diamond Head Putter

[MrFreeze]

On 1/29/2017 at 2:54 PM, LyLu said:

It depends on your swingspeed, you have to test different shafts and see for yourself.

Many Senior Flex players in my club has changed to Aerotech Steelfibre shafts but also some of the lighter steelshafts would be good.

Regarding irons, what about Titleist AP2, King Forged Tec or something in this category?

These irons will be good for all kind of different hcp, and because they are forged you will also have the perfect feedback :)

I hit the King but the AP2 only had a "stiff" shaft available.

 

[Pretzel]

On 2/22/2017 at 4:52 PM, Hacker James said:

I am not sure I buy into the argument that using clubs with offset will only be a band aid for a swing flaw.  If you started out with the offsets in the first place, you will have learned how to effectively hit the ball and have a swing built around that and therefore is not "flawed". Then if you switch to a square face, would you not be only having to manipulate your swing to accommodate the change? Who is to say which is better? If your natural swing works, then there is no manipulation.

I do concede the point that going "to" an offset would require some swing changes and from that viewpoint might be considered a band-aid.  I also would agree that the offset face does not really have much effect but is mainly an alignment thing or optics.  Still, the club makers, use the "extra time to square the face" mantra.  I would be interested in what someone like Tom Wishon has to say about it.

 

Your swing isn't changed because of the offset. You just line the club up with a closed face because of the offset. 

Even if you have always lined up the club with a closed face, that doesn't mean it is correct and not a "band-aid" (even though it is a long lasting and easy band-aid). Your swing, if you were to use it with a club that was properly aligned with your target when you took your grip, would produce bad results because you'd go from always having a hooded clubface to having a square clubface at address. 

It's absolutely a band-aid since the golfer is lining up every shot with a closed clubface due to an optical illusion that was designed to have that very effect on golfers.

[Hacker James]

10 hours ago, Pretzel said:

Your swing isn't changed because of the offset. You just line the club up with a closed face because of the offset. 

Even if you have always lined up the club with a closed face, that doesn't mean it is correct and not a "band-aid" (even though it is a long lasting and easy band-aid). Your swing, if you were to use it with a club that was properly aligned with your target when you took your grip, would produce bad results because you'd go from always having a hooded clubface to having a square clubface at address. 

It's absolutely a band-aid since the golfer is lining up every shot with a closed clubface due to an optical illusion that was designed to have that very effect on golfers.

Perhaps so, but using this reasoning, Jack Nicklaus, Furyk, Casper, Trevino and others all have flaws in their swings, but all had one thing in common as to getting to effective impact positions. Just like the saying "If it ain't broke, why fix it?".  In any event, the offset club makes me more aware of club face alignment. I even have to make sure my draw does not turn into a hook. 

[iacas]

On 3/19/2017 at 1:36 PM, Hacker James said:

Perhaps so, but using this reasoning, Jack Nicklaus, Furyk, Casper, Trevino and others all have flaws in their swings, but all had one thing in common as to getting to effective impact positions.

How do you figure?

[Hatchman]

Got to agree with @Pretzel here.  

[MrFreeze]

Alright folks...

Here are some numbers and specs... First the specs of the clubs that I seem to hit well.

	Club	Length	Loft	Lie	Offset
Ping I 200	6-Iron	37.50"	29.50°	61.88°	0.14"
Ping K15	6-Iron	37.25"	29.00°	61.50°	0.27"
TaylorMade M2	6-Iron	37.625”	25.0º	62.5º	5.3mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	6-Iron	37.625"	26°	62.00°	0.16
Ping I 200	7-Iron	37.00"	33.00°	62.63°	0.09"
Ping K15	7-Iron	36.75"	32.00°	62.25°	0.24"
TaylorMade M2	7-Iron	37.00”	28.5º	63.0º	4.7mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	7-Iron	37.00"	30°	62.50°	0.15
Ping I 200	8-Iron	36.50"	37.00°	63.38°	0.07"
Ping K15	8-Iron	36.25"	36.00°	63.00°	0.22"
TaylorMade M2	8-Iron	36.50”	33.0º	63.5º	4.0mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	8-Iron	36.50"	34.5°	63.00°	0.14
Ping I 200	9-Iron	36.00"	41.00°	64.13°	0.05"
Ping K15	9-Iron	35.75"	40.00°	63.75°	0.20"
TaylorMade M2	9-Iron	36.00”	38.0º	64.0º	3.5mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	9-Iron	36.00"	39°	63.50°	0.13
Ping I 200	PW	35.50"	45.00°	64.75°	0.03"
Ping K15	PW	35.50"	45.00°	64.00°	0.18"
TaylorMade M2	PW	35.50”	43.5º	64.5º	3.0mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	PW	35.75"	44°	64.00°	0.12

 

The yardages for the same clubs (7 iron tested), and a couple of others...

Club	Yards
JpX900 Hot Metal	138
Ping K15	138
Callaway Steel Head XR	145
G	145
Ping I 200	148
TaylorMade M2	151

So I looked at the lofts and it seems that the M2 is quite a bit stronger at the 7iron.

Love the sound of the Ping i200 followed by the Steel Head. Love the feel of the i200, Steel Head, and the M2. Distance speaks for itself.

Now the hard part. getting it down to one, as I am not wealthy. :)

 

 

[HSGolfer32]

On 2/1/2017 at 9:28 PM, WUTiger said:

It depends on what works. Case in point is a Tom Wishon video on custom club-fitting. It showed a 20 HDCP guy in his early 60s who was getting fitted for irons. He had a smooth swing with decent lag, and his final irons solution was some blades with high-launch, R-flex shafts.

From testing various Callaway stock, I tried hitting the 2008 X Forged irons w/S300 shafts. It wasn't pretty... for the 7i (it has some loft...) most of the shots got about 6 feet off the ground, and went nowhere.

In 2013, the XHot series hit the market. When trying the newer XForged irons with the PX 95 5.5 shaft, I found I could actually get the shots airborne with good shape. Main drawback: the XHot went 20 yards farther.

The point of all this: I'm sure there's a few 20 HDCP players out there who can handle blades, given the proper shafts. But, a lot more 20 HDCP do better with SGI and GI irons.

I feel you are right and wrong on this i am around a bogey golf golfer with a few lower 80s like 82 snuck in there usually around a 14-16 handicap and i play titelist 712cb. Not completely a blade but at the same time a small players club. I lose all my strokes on the green and chipping. Not every mid/high handicapper is the same

On 4/13/2017 at 10:45 PM, MrFreeze said:

Alright folks...

Here are some numbers and specs... First the specs of the clubs that I seem to hit well.

	Club	Length	Loft	Lie	Offset
Ping I 200	6-Iron	37.50"	29.50°	61.88°	0.14"
Ping K15	6-Iron	37.25"	29.00°	61.50°	0.27"
TaylorMade M2	6-Iron	37.625”	25.0º	62.5º	5.3mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	6-Iron	37.625"	26°	62.00°	0.16
Ping I 200	7-Iron	37.00"	33.00°	62.63°	0.09"
Ping K15	7-Iron	36.75"	32.00°	62.25°	0.24"
TaylorMade M2	7-Iron	37.00”	28.5º	63.0º	4.7mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	7-Iron	37.00"	30°	62.50°	0.15
Ping I 200	8-Iron	36.50"	37.00°	63.38°	0.07"
Ping K15	8-Iron	36.25"	36.00°	63.00°	0.22"
TaylorMade M2	8-Iron	36.50”	33.0º	63.5º	4.0mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	8-Iron	36.50"	34.5°	63.00°	0.14
Ping I 200	9-Iron	36.00"	41.00°	64.13°	0.05"
Ping K15	9-Iron	35.75"	40.00°	63.75°	0.20"
TaylorMade M2	9-Iron	36.00”	38.0º	64.0º	3.5mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	9-Iron	36.00"	39°	63.50°	0.13
Ping I 200	PW	35.50"	45.00°	64.75°	0.03"
Ping K15	PW	35.50"	45.00°	64.00°	0.18"
TaylorMade M2	PW	35.50”	43.5º	64.5º	3.0mm
Callaway Steel Head XR	PW	35.75"	44°	64.00°	0.12

 

The yardages for the same clubs (7 iron tested), and a couple of others...

Club	Yards
JpX900 Hot Metal	138
Ping K15	138
Callaway Steel Head XR	145
G	145
Ping I 200	148
TaylorMade M2	151

So I looked at the lofts and it seems that the M2 is quite a bit stronger at the 7iron.

Love the sound of the Ping i200 followed by the Steel Head. Love the feel of the i200, Steel Head, and the M2. Distance speaks for itself.

Now the hard part. getting it down to one, as I am not wealthy. :)

 

 

The ping i200 would work with you more in the long run. I find it to be a sutible replacement to the s series a players club not forged and not very hard to hit