Do Ball Flight Laws Apply To the Short Game

[DownAndOut]

Just a general question as I noticed that I can chip/pitch balls (that are nearer my rear foot at address and with an open clubface)  where the initial ball flight direction does not go 80-85% where the clubface is pointing. So a ball position closer to my rear foot and my hands forward at address should mean an 'in to out'  swing path . Further , if I open my clubface before gripping (to introduce bounce and lift the leading edge off the ground), the clubface will be even more open into impact and I am expecting the ball to go way right according to the ball flight laws. But that doesn't seem to be the case if I create sufficient momentum and I've noticed the ball seems to move more in the direction of the swing path.  So do the ball flight laws apply for higher lofted clubs in the short game?

[Golfingdad]

I would think that the only time I can see them not applying would be an explosion type shot, like a bunker shot, where the clubface and ball don't ever meet.  In that case, the ball is probably going 80-85% (or something) in the direction of the path.  Other than that, I would assume they'd always apply.

[Hardspoon]

The ball definitely will still start in the face direction; if anything, the impact of path will be less with less velocity. 

The ball will curve less overall.

[iacas]

It's still mostly face but as speed goes down it can get as low as 65/35 or so.

Doesn't apply if sand/grass get between ball/face.

[Piz]

The physics of collisions are the same.  A chip or pitch is not airborne long enough for the imparted spin to noticeably effect the flight path.  Not so once the ball returns to ground.  If the spin-line matches the club path; the ball departs along, and remains on, the club path.  For the face angle, relative to club path, to influence ball flight; the ball must remain airborne long enough for the Magnus force to produce (again) a noticeable effect.  This is why a nicely executed 9 iron chip would be a woeful hack with a 3 iron: it isn't the spin imparted...it's the time spent traveling through a fluid medium.  

[iacas]

  On 2/5/2017 at 6:58 AM, Piz said:

If the spin-line matches the club path; the ball departs along, and remains on, the club path.  

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The ball still starts closer to where the face is pointing than the path.

[ZappyAd]

My guess is that as the loft of the club increases the percentage of initial direction due to face angle goes down.  So chipping with a wide open 60' wedge means you only have to swipe across the ball a small amount to get it to go straight.

Maybe at a higher loft the ball can slip across the face more easily along the direction of the swing path and so picks up more swing path facing momentum.  But it is probably all still consistent with the physics of full shots it's just the face angle is 60+ degrees versus 10-46' driver to wedge.

 

[DownAndOut]

Many thanks all for your comments. I've actually found a You Tube video that sort of explains it a bit more visually now (more in the later half of the video where he shows his D -Plane model). For higher lofted clubs you can imagine where the blue ball flight will be compared to target line even with a significant variance in 'swing path vs target line'. Sort of explains why my high short pitches/chips (even with an open clubface) feels closer to the target line.

 

Edited February 5, 2017 by DownAndOut

[Golfingdad]

  On 2/5/2017 at 2:01 PM, DownAndOut said:

Sort of explains why my high short pitches/chips (even with an open clubface) feels closer to the target line.

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Also don't forget that if you're not using some fancy technology, then you're comparing apples to oranges for your study.  The direction the club face is pointing at setup and at impact aren't necessarily going to match.

[iacas]

  On 2/5/2017 at 2:01 PM, DownAndOut said:

Many thanks all for your comments. I've actually found a You Tube video that sort of explains it a bit more visually now (more in the later half of the video where he shows his D -Plane model). For higher lofted clubs you can imagine where the blue ball flight will be compared to target line even with a significant variance in 'swing path vs target line'. Sort of explains why my high short pitches/chips (even with an open clubface) feels closer to the target line.

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Like @Golfingdad said, you don't know where the face is pointing or where you're swinging at impact. It's just your feel, which is rarely all that accurate.

The D-Plane is discussed here many, many times and places.