Thorbjorn Olesen's Ball in Water Hazard Twice at BMW International Open

[Missouri Swede]

I watched a few minutes of the second round of the BMW International Open today, and saw an issue come up with a drop/placing of the ball after Thorbjorn Olesen’s ball went into a water hazard. 

His ball went into the water hazard, and in taking relief, he dropped twice and it twice rolled back to the hazard and so he placed the ball (1 stroke).  He then walked up onto the green. While he was on the green, the ball rolled again into the water hazard.  Olesen called for a rules official, who told him to re-place the ball and continue on, with no additional penalty. Evidently there was some concern that this wasn't a correct ruling pretty quickly—even the announcers were questioning it as it was happening—and Olesen was told (maybe one hole later or so) that there would be an additional 1-stroke penalty for relief from the hazard the second time. 

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/olesen-rules-incident-bmw-international-open/

Olesen seems a bit miffed at the rules officials for the incorrect ruling, but it seems that he still doesn't get it. As I see it, he should have re-dropped (twice, if needed, and then placed if needed) with the second 1-stroke penalty.  But the rules official didn't cost Olesen any strokes at all—the ball going into the hazard twice was Olesen’s own doing, so taking relief twice cost him two 1-stroke penalties.

My concerns are:

1. Olesen is upset that “you guys [rules officials] … don't know the rules.”  Maybe, but Olesen should know them also, especially the significance of whether a ball was moving or at rest, and in play or not.

--and maybe worse--

2. It seems he thinks the rules official cost him the second stroke. But since Olesen doesn't get it that he had to take the second 1-stroke penalty to take relief the second time regardless, Olesen still doesn't understand the rule or this particular ruling. 

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/european-tour-official-mcfee-olesens-penalty/

Edited June 24, 2017 by Missouri Swede

[Vinsk]

I watched this. May I ask, it seemed based on the slope he was dealing with his ball was 'unplaceable' due to the surface at hand. What could he have done to avoid another penalty...or better, what do you do if every time you place your ball it rolls?

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I watched this. May I ask, it seemed based on the slope he was dealing with his ball was 'unplaceable' due to the surface at hand. What could he have done to avoid another penalty...or better, what do you do if every time you place your ball it rolls?

The problem was he was able to place it and have it come to rest temporarily.

If he suspected that may be a problem he could have used one of the other relief options to drop in a different place.

[David in FL]

17 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I watched this. May I ask, it seemed based on the slope he was dealing with his ball was 'unplaceable' due to the surface at hand. What could he have done to avoid another penalty...or better, what do you do if every time you place your ball it rolls?

As @iacas said, his ball actually came to a rest.

20-3d answers the rest of your question though...

d. Ball Fails to Come to Rest on Spot

If a ball when placed fails to come to rest on the spot on which it was placed, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. If it still fails to come to rest on that spot:

(i) except in a hazard, it must be placed at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer thehole and not in a hazard;

(ii) in a hazard, it must be placed in the hazard at the nearest spot where it can be placed at rest that is not nearer the hole.

If a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

f a ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed, and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.

So, the ball came to rest, subsequently moved...but into the water. So he was given another penalty because the ball rolled into the water? It says "no penalty and ball played as it lies, unless provisions of any other Rule apply." 

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

So, the ball came to rest, subsequently moved...but into the water. So he was given another penalty because the ball rolled into the water? It says "no penalty and ball played as it lies, unless provisions of any other Rule apply." 

Right… but his ball lie in the water hazard. He could have played it as he lie… but if he wanted relief from that situation, he had to invoke the proper relief procedure and pay the additional penalty stroke.

[David in FL]

13 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

So, the ball came to rest, subsequently moved...but into the water. So he was given another penalty because the ball rolled into the water? It says "no penalty and ball played as it lies, unless provisions of any other Rule apply." 

Once it came to a rest, it was in play.  When it moved, there was no penalty, BUT, it came to rest in the hazard, so the provisions of rule 26 now applied...

[Vinsk]

20 minutes ago, iacas said:

Right… but his ball lie in the water hazard. He could have played it as he lie… but if he wanted relief from that situation, he had to invoke the proper relief procedure and pay the additional penalty stroke.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media?guid=wkeHEd3B_iB9S1Fs0J2lUZkKlhS4d0Av

Seems like Oleson was trying to tell the official his ball 'didn't come to rest.' He was hesitant to admit when the official said, "So it's reasonable to assume the ball came to rest after placing it"....

[Rulesman]

Why did he walk away from it if was not at rest?

[Vinsk]

Exactly. I don't know Olesen that well but he seemed a bit of a douche  to me trying to imply the ball was oscillating as he walked away....and I'm not well versed in the rules but as a tour player earning a living I would think he'd know it's his responsibility to know them. I don't think his saying, " It seems it's happening a lot lately out here I have to call you guys over and they don't know the rules." Well, clown, how about you learn them yourself? I dunno ...he's on my 'douche' list for now.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Vinsk