Here is How to move the hip

[Peter_b]

First of all you read this here first. I found a way to easily set the hip rotation in the downswing.  I am playing for 33 years, have read tons of books and took hundreds of lessons but no one could explain to me how to rotate the hips. And we don't have to understand this complicated double jointed system.  We just need to understand the position we need to get into.

So here is how to make the hip work. 

1. hit buckets and buckets with feet together until feel your back as counterweight. You can check Shawn Clement on how to do this on youtube. Cant listen to the guy makes me nervous but he shows it well. 

2. If you have the counter weight feel and you feel that you can accelerate the arms without actively swinginging them just by the counterweight of your butt. You are set when you hit about the same distances as with feet apart. Feel that you can accelerate with the hips as counterweight. You will extend and bend your upper body doing so and flexing both knees and extending them. 

3. get to P6 and stop with feet together, see what P6 is in the attached picture but still feet together. Examine how your hip is located in space. Feels like pushed out to the rear right. That is the position of the hip you need in the full swing and it is a complete new feel for most of us.

4. make a step left from P6 feet together. In the full swing you need to slide on the left leg and do that hip rotation you just leaned. Stepping left will show you how this feels about with feet apart but your weight will be too much on the right. Never mind you just learned how your hip has to be positioned in the downswing. You will be able to add the weight shift. Watch Macs swing on how he does it. He does it beautifully. 

 

Why this works is while the feet are together the hip can only rotate around the knees as one knee, and if you do it wrong you either fall to the side or you don´t move the hip at all. The pelvis rotates around the knees like the earth around the sun. Omg that is cheesy lol. For most of us setting the hip movement like that feels almost opposite of what we have done before. Most of us do swingdoor movements of the pelvis around a leg then the other. With this you understand this is not what you need. It’s a rotation of the pelvis around a point that is somewhere above the center between your knees and that point is sliding in the swing. 

[saevel25]

 

1 hour ago, Peter_b said:

1. hit buckets and buckets with feet together until feel your back as counterweight.

Yea, I don't get this one.

1 hour ago, Peter_b said:

The pelvis rotates around the knees like the earth around the sun. Omg that is cheesy lol. For most of us setting the hip movement like that feels almost opposite of what we have done before. Most of us do swingdoor movements of the pelvis around a leg then the other. With this you understand this is not what you need.

This is a tad confusing, can you explain it better?

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by saevel25

[Peter_b]

deleteing this as you edited your text. Sure will do later.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Peter_b

[saevel25]

7 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

As I said I don't want to get into anatomy which I could as a doc. I don't care what muscles you use to move the pelvis. This is about learning the right hip/pelvis rotation and I give you a way to easily learn it.

Again, Explain why you use the word counterweight? I don't get this.

1 hour ago, Peter_b said:

. hit buckets and buckets with feet together until feel your back as counterweight

 

[Peter_b]

It takes a couple of buckets until you are comfy swinging feet together. You will realise, as I said, you can swing your arms by body turn alone, you can accelerate the swing by body turn. You also will notice the faster you turn you need your butt as counterweight not to fall to the front. There is where the arm swinger realises what swinging with the lower body means and what passive arms are.

Does that make it more clear?

For the pelvis it sits on two bones. Put a cardboard on two sticks in each hand and you can move the box around in a million directions. But take the two sticks in one hand and the box rotation is extremely limited. In fact it can only rotate around your hand or fall to a side. 

This is the same with the pelvis if you have your feet together. The "sticks"= femurs are together at the knees. The pelvis will rotate or tilt to the side. 

If you watch any feet together drill on youtube you will see the pelvis rotates and tilts a bit. It tilts against the force that happens from the club. So the pelvis will act as counterbalance. 

Is that more clear now? 

Edited August 8, 2017 by Peter_b

[Peter_b]

Edit: replace pelvis with lower body or hips please, I really don't care about the pelvis position anatomically. There is just a posture to understand and learn that will not happen to all of us naturally.

 

a lot of these feet together drills. They just do not get what there is to learn.

 

 

 

[iacas]

The hips don't only rotate around their center. They move laterally as they rotate in almost all good player swings.

[Peter_b]

Hi iacas, I hoped you would take part in this conversation. I know your thread with the tripod and right knee to it. It is partly why this thread exists. I was not able to learn the correct hip motion by your findings nor could any of the arm swingers, short hitters, goat humpers, flippers on the following 28 pages. 

So you say They move laterally as they rotate. I agree, completely. The question is how do they rotate while they move laterally? Do they rotate around the left leg like a swing door? While they do that is the left hip staying in place or is it going back? What is the right hip doing ? You see that motion is brutally complicated and you will not learn it with a tripod between your legs (I could not). With my method you do.

They move laterally as they rotate. Well they don't if they have their feet together as they would fall to the side. They would not able to swing. I isolate the hip turning with this drill, there is no move laterally. I define the position of the hip in P6. One condition: swing with his body not the arms. That’s why I say hit a couple of buckets. Bad hippers are mostly arm swingers. 

A player with a bad hip movement who is a 100% a short hitter in his handicap class doing my drill will say wow, this is the hip position I need to be in before impact? Unbelievable I would never have thought to bring my hip in such a position.

Try it yourself. Feet together stop in P6, step left with left foot without changing the hip rotation and now do your move laterally without rotating hip and bring the weight mostly on the left foot. Now tell me this is not the correct hip position in P6.

There are a lot of attempts to define the hip rotation like Ggswingtips with its squat but they are makeshift solutions as you can squat in a million ways. None I have found explaining what to do. This ends here.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Peter_b

[Hategolf]

This is an interesting posting.  

I am very much and arm and upper body dominant swinger. That is because when I activate my hips, I end up dipping a knee or simply turning towards the ball and and shanking. I also find the hip mvement o be the most complicated piece of the swing. 

When I'm swinging well, I do fell my hips moving sideways a little towards the target while turning at the same time and I hit them further, but is difficult to repeat under pressure. 

I noticed that the hip turning w/o moving a little sideways is easier to execute.

If you could post a video it would be awesome.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Hategolf
Unfinished

[Peter_b]

I feel with you and I can make a video but its not different than the Clement feet together movies. What I can demonstrate is the translation of the P6 from feet together to full swing P6 Position. 

What is really important is to feel what your butt is doing in the feet together drill and you swing the arms  only by lower body movement (passive arms). As I said you will feel counterweight and that your butt counterrotates. If you are an arm swing you are not doing that in the full swing.

The feet together drill also teaches to swing hands deep. If you don't you fall sideways. That’s the clue in the feet together drill it is extremely restrictive and isolating.

Quote

I noticed that the hip turning w/o moving a little sideways is easier to execute.

Yes it will be a real challenge to shift weight/move sideways to the left foot after understanding what the hip must do, how it has to rotate. But that’s a step after understanding. It gets possible then.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Peter_b

[Peter_b]

Here you go just a cold quick and dirty attic movie and I am sure others can do it better then me but you will get the idea. The P6 after the step isn't ideal for sure but what is correct is the pelvis rotation for sure. If you do this you will feel it is completely different than what you are doing right now with the hips.

 

https://youtu.be/uVhBcGhvFWw

When you stop in P6 examine the hip rotation. It is far right and as much away from the ball as possible on the outmost orbit. Did I do that in the full swing?  Move laterally left and meanwhile  counterrotate the hip to the outmost right orbit? Well no I for sure did not.

Also check slomo pro swings now and you will see it after understanding.

Edited August 9, 2017 by Peter_b

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Peter_b said:

I know your thread with the tripod and right knee to it. It is partly why this thread exists. I was not able to learn the correct hip motion by your findings nor could any of the arm swingers, short hitters, goat humpers, flippers on the following 28 pages.

Well, now that's a lie…

Plenty of people have benefitted from that topic and many have posted to say so.

And there's no need to be insulting to your fellow members.

6 hours ago, Peter_b said:

The question is how do they rotate while they move laterally? Do they rotate around the left leg like a swing door? While they do that is the left hip staying in place or is it going back? What is the right hip doing ? You see that motion is brutally complicated and you will not learn it with a tripod between your legs (I could not). With my method you do.

That topic isn't about the rotation of the hips on the downswing.

That said, you absolutely can learn it with a tripod in front of your knee, because…

… if your right knee kicks out into the tripod, the right hip begins moving the wrong direction, and the rotation becomes more difficult as well.

Neither Scott nor Hogan would have knocked the tripod over.

6 hours ago, Peter_b said:

They move laterally as they rotate. Well they don't if they have their feet together as they would fall to the side.

They do move laterally, though, in the swings of good players.

6 hours ago, Peter_b said:

They would not able to swing. I isolate the hip turning with this drill, there is no move laterally. I define the position of the hip in P6. One condition: swing with his body not the arms. That’s why I say hit a couple of buckets. Bad hippers are mostly arm swingers.

I agree that this would isolate turning the hips. I have some people do this occasionally for the backswing, when they sway their hips away from the target.

But I could put my feet together and still use my upper body and arms.

6 hours ago, Peter_b said:

A player with a bad hip movement who is a 100% a short hitter in his handicap class doing my drill will say wow, this is the hip position I need to be in before impact? Unbelievable I would never have thought to bring my hip in such a position.

I don't think that the correlation between what you're calling "bad hip movement" and being a short hitter is anywhere near as strong as you seem to think. Hell, plenty of goat humpers and arm swingers can hit the ball really far, even if their hips are square to the target line at impact.

6 hours ago, Peter_b said:

Try it yourself. Feet together stop in P6, step left with left foot without changing the hip rotation and now do your move laterally without rotating hip and bring the weight mostly on the left foot. Now tell me this is not the correct hip position in P6.

Without the hips having slid forward at all? No, I wouldn't agree that's the correct hip position:

Also, the pressure and weight shift is not 50/50 at A6.

6 hours ago, Peter_b said:

There are a lot of attempts to define the hip rotation like Ggswingtips with its squat but they are makeshift solutions as you can squat in a million ways. None I have found explaining what to do. This ends here.

Honestly, your explanation relies on feels and what seem like suspect biomechanics right now.

Your comments about not only me, but your fellow members, and now George Gankas, etc. are not helping 

4 hours ago, Peter_b said:

I feel with you and I can make a video but its not different than the Clement feet together movies. What I can demonstrate is the translation of the P6 from feet together to full swing P6 Position.

If you're just repeating what Shawn has posted, what's the point of this? What's new?

4 hours ago, Peter_b said:

What is really important is to feel what your butt is doing in the feet together drill and you swing the arms  only by lower body movement (passive arms). As I said you will feel counterweight and that your butt counterrotates. If you are an arm swing you are not doing that in the full swing.

Do you truly think the arms are passive in the downswing, and that they don't actively do very much?

4 hours ago, Peter_b said:

Here you go just a cold quick and dirty attic movie and I am sure others can do it better then me but you will get the idea. The P6 after the step isn't ideal for sure but what is correct is the pelvis rotation for sure. If you do this you will feel it is completely different than what you are doing right now with the hips.

https://youtu.be/uVhBcGhvFWw

The video doesn't work.

4 hours ago, Peter_b said:

When you stop in P6 examine the hip rotation. It is far right and as much away from the ball as possible on the outmost orbit. Did I do that in the full swing?  Move laterally left and meanwhile  counterrotate the hip to the outmost right orbit? Well no I for sure did not.

Also check slomo pro swings now and you will see it after understanding.

Uhhhh… okay?

---

Look, I agree that most people are not open enough at impact.

Beyond that, I'm not seeing much of what you're offering here.

[Peter_b]

Quote

Beyond that, I'm not seeing much of what you're offering here.

Lets see if I can make people understand on how to rotate the hip correctly. And I am not lying, I do really think your Tripod thing, like the bucket thing of other pros does not help understand what there is to do with the hip. I dont think I insulted you.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Peter_b

[Vinsk]

38 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

And I am not lying, I do really think your Tripod thing, like the bucket thing of other pros does not help understand what there is to do with the hip. I dont think I insulted you.

Well, then you're just incorrect. Many of us (including myself) may not 'understand' what is to be done with the hips but can do drills, use checkpoints to help us groove our OWN feelings while performing the proper movements. I've watched and done Clement's feet together drill (which isn't his by any means btw) for the reason @iacas mentioned (swaying). But this drill does nothing for the important feature of hip action which is the lateral move towards the target.

[Peter_b]

Alright I take the points of the OWN feeling. Its for sure important. I still say I am not incorrect. My opinion is that it is not the lateral movement to the target but to bring the hip in the right position, is the key to a good swing. The lateral movement is a necessity as the feet are apart. Sadly it makes it much harder to use the hip correctly. It is also my strong belief that golfers are devided in those who can use the hip motor by nature and those who can not. You will find a lot of longhitters hitting 300y and more in the first group and and a lot of arms swingers, goat humpers and hand flippers where driving is limited to about 250y-280y. 

What I am trying to show is that if you use the hip-motor correctly in the feet together drill it will help you determine on how to use the hip when the feet are apart. If you like it’s a method to get the knee to the tripod or make the wastbin between your legs tilt. I have not seen any feet together drill flic that tries to explain the full swing hip rotation through the closed feet swing.

In fact my method is extremely easy to do with a strong feedback that lateral movement, with swinging the hip around the left femur like a western-door, is not the way to go and a strong feedback on how it is to be done. 

 

 

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

lateral movement, with swinging the hip around the left femur like a western-door, is not the way to go and a strong feedback on how it is to be done. 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. You do realize that all good players (many, many videos showing this) show the player making a lateral movement of the hips as the first move down and not just rotating. This is not 'opinion', it's plain fact. What drill you think provides that feel the best is your own opinion. But to say 'lateral movement..is not the way to go..is unfortunately incorrect 100%. .

[Peter_b]

Never said its not the way to go, read my answer to iacas. You absolutely have to do the lateral movement when the feet are apart.

My point really is, in the feet together drill you can quickly use the hips correctly, much easier use them correctly than in the full swing. Try to translate it to the full swing. I am trying to give a method to do so. 

[Vinsk]

2 minutes ago, Peter_b said:

Never said its not the way to go, read my answer to iacas. You absolutely have to do the lateral movement when the feet are apart.

Right. And I, nor anybody else, plays golf with feet together. I'm just not understanding..are you attempting to explain hip rotation without lateral movement? Because I don't think those moves are too independent to be treated as separate, but as an important matter of proper weight shift and sequencing. Yes? No?