Is Golf More Mental or Physical?

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, rehmwa said:

and you are right to do so

so very right

It's kind of a tough call to say whether golf is more mental or more physical? It entirely depends upon what you define as "physical" and "mental".

Golf is obviously like any other sport, physical, and just like any other sport depends upon "training". So, if by "mental" we mean building the motor skills needed to play and by physical we mean only building the flexibility and strength in specific muscle groups then mental is dominant.

If we define all the above as physical, then golf is like 99% physical.

For example, I could have the absolute worst day, didn't drink enough coffee, and just hate everything around me, I could still shoot in the 70s. I've done this recently. Then I could be perfectly happy and sharp mentally, and still shoot in the 90s. I've also done this recently. How I shoot seemingly has nothing to do with my mental state for the day.

Another example is I can be repeatedly thinking "I'm going to miss this putt", but if I setup everything correctly then the ball goes in whether I like it or not.

The difference between me now and me 4 years ago is mostly mental/physical conditioning through proper training. So, from that perspective, mental and yet physical.

Edited September 25, 2017 by Lihu

[BallMarker]

Both.

But, the more skilled you become, the more mental the game becomes.

[bones75]

2 hours ago, BallMarker said:

Both.

But, the more skilled you become, the more mental the game becomes.

I agree with the above, as well as with posters saying its physical (as it applies to us).  The famous Bobby Jones' quote is famous for a reason, right? "Competitive golf is played mainly on a five-and-a-half-inch course..."

There was a guy in Ventura/Northwest LA County (where I grew up) in the 70's and 80's who my dad occasionally played with.  He was a bartender, played Sherwood as his home course I think (got some sort of pass from the club), and was far beyond scratch.  I was a kid and didn't golf, but heard a number of stories from my dad, his golf buddies, and even from kids I knew that caddy'd at sherwood. They all regarded it as fact that he had every shot to go pro.  He did evidently try for several years before he got married, but he conceded he just couldn't develop the mental game. 

I'd imagine there are quite of few of these guys. 
 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, bones75 said:

I agree with the above, as well as with posters saying its physical (as it applies to us).  The famous Bobby Jones' quote is famous for a reason, right? "Competitive golf is played mainly on a five-and-a-half-inch course..."

No. "Drive for show, putt for dough" is a famous quote, too. Doesn't mean it's right.

4 minutes ago, bones75 said:

He did evidently try for several years before he got married, but he conceded he just couldn't develop the mental game.

Unlikely. Seriously, unlikely.

Unless he was just a head case.

[bones75]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

No. "Drive for show, putt for dough" is a famous quote, too. Doesn't mean it's right.

Unlikely. Seriously, unlikely.

Unless he was just a head case.

I admit, it's mostly a memory from me, but I'll ask my Dad his name to google him.  But the thought still remains, aren't there a lot of guys that can routinely throw up mid sixties in tournament conditions on varied courses, but still can't ever get anything going on the Web.com? Maybe the guy I am recalling was a head case, but my guess would have been there's a crapload of these same head cases that are trying to qualify for either the web.com or pga.

Is John Daly's success and problems physical or mental?  I'm thinking particularly after he won the masters.

Edited September 26, 2017 by bones75

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, bones75 said:

Is John Daly's success and problems physical or mental?  I'm thinking particularly after he won the masters.

John Daly never won the Masters. And he was having problems well before he won the PGA… or the British Open.

Golf is almost entirely physical. You have to be world-class physically before your mental game can even matter. If you're not world class physically, you'll never even GET to the PGA Tour.

And you need to be a 6.5-index physically before you shoot like a 6.5 index. If you blow up in tournaments, yeah, you've got some mental work to do… but you're still a 6.5 index because of how you swing and hit the ball and putt and chip, etc.

Between peers, the mental game is a sliver of a separator. But sometimes at the highest level that's all it takes. Other times, you can be so good physically (see also Dustin Johnson) that you can be a stooge and still win.

[bones75]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

John Daly never won the Masters. And he was having problems well before he won the PGA… or the British Open.

Golf is almost entirely physical. You have to be world-class physically before your mental game can even matter. If you're not world class physically, you'll never even GET to the PGA Tour.

And you need to be a 6.5-index physically before you shoot like a 6.5 index. If you blow up in tournaments, yeah, you've got some mental work to do… but you're still a 6.5 index because of how you swing and hit the ball and putt and chip, etc.

Between peers, the mental game is a sliver of a separator. But sometimes at the highest level that's all it takes. Other times, you can be so good physically (see also Dustin Johnson) that you can be a stooge and still win.

Not sure if we disagree on any point, was just agreeing it becomes more mental as you get better.  I've played a lot of sports in my life, tennis seriously through high school and competed d1 in college (for those that will accept this as I was a runner).  And even in running, it's hard for me to say that mental game was not of paramount importance when in competition. Agree that if you didn't get your body to the physical state (including muscle memory) to compete, you were already out... but I've personally witnessed (myself, opponents, teammates) so many fails/losses due to the mental game it's hard for me to completely discount it w/ a clear conscience.  And I'm not just talking any-given-sunday... but over seasons as well.

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, bones75 said:

Not sure if we disagree on any point, was just agreeing it becomes more mental as you get better.

I disagree. I don't think it's ever really very mental at all. It's a sliver of an edge… but so can being a good putter. Or a great driver. Those are much bigger advantages, IMO.

5 minutes ago, bones75 said:

And even in running, it's hard for me to say that mental game was not of paramount importance when in competition.

The mental game in running is also a sliver of an edge. In reality, either you can run far/fast/combo or you can't. You can't take a guy who doesn't have the skills - even 90% of them - and get him to the top level JUST with the mental game. Even a guy who is 99% there physically will falter.

5 minutes ago, bones75 said:

so many fails/losses due to the mental game it's hard for me to completely discount it w/ a clear conscience.

Well, that's your perception of things, of course. Others feel differently.

---

TBH, I've never struggled with the mental game, so I'm likely to downplay it. But even trying to over-give it credit, I just don't think it's a big factor. A shot here and there, a small sliver like I said… that's about it.

IMO.

[alfriday]

Am I the only one who finds iacas's comments ironic.  

 

I mean, this is the guy who wrote LSW--a book about strategy, about building a "proper GamePlan [that] will help you drop multiple strokes using the game you have today."  (p. 139.)

 

 

[iacas]

13 minutes ago, alfriday said:

Am I the only one who finds iacas's comments ironic.  

I mean, this is the guy who wrote LSW--a book about strategy, about building a "proper GamePlan [that] will help you drop multiple strokes using the game you have today."  (p. 139.)

That's not something I regard as "mental."

I mean, if you want to include "isn't flatlining on an EEG" as "mental" then golf is very mental. If you want to say "your brain tells your body what to do," then golf is very mental.

I take "mental" to mean dealing with stresses or nerves or whatever.

Not making simple decisions.

Seriously, think about it… someone else could make the decisions for you and tell you where to aim a shot or whatever.

[bones75]

50 minutes ago, iacas said:

Well, that's your perception of things, of course. Others feel differently.

Yea. But I feel I have more than just a few in my camp of perspectives! I had at least one close friend/roomate in the soccer, tennis, golf and volleyball programs at UCLA '93-'97 (it was an ethnicity relationship which is why our circle crossed sports).  None were trying to go pro, but two of them had substantial play time during national title defense seasons. I still believe we don't disagree that much (defining "mental"), but I can wholeheartedly say my friends would disagree with the statement that the mental game only accounts for a sliver of difference. The people going pro asisde, and including 1v1 sports like tennis, there's a surprising amount of parity even at the d1 level (everyone is gifted and trains hard a.f.), so mental games determined many outcomes in our eyes.  perhaps we just saw more head cases out there than you do.

Just ask Dr. Molly Griswald! 

Edited September 26, 2017 by bones75

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, bones75 said:

Yea. But I feel I have more than just a few in my camp of perspectives!

As do I.

Also, I don't trust "your eyes." People's eyes lie all the time, and confirmation bias is a real thing, too.

None of this should be at all offensive. I disagree. The mental side of things is a sliver of a difference. Sometimes that's enough to matter, other times it's not. On the PGA Tour, if your physical game isn't going along very well, you're missing the cut. You're not contending for the win on the strength of your mental game. If you're top three coming down the stretch, the mental game might give you that sliver of an edge. Or maybe it lets you down a sliver.

And since there's no real way to quantify any of this…

[alfriday]

17 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Seriously, think about it… someone else could make the decisions for you and tell you where to aim a shot or whatever.

Seriously, think about it...someone else could hit the shots based on your decisions.

 

So.   

 

 

[bones75]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

As do I.

And since there's no real way to quantify any of this…

 You are a data hungry glutton. Isn't the entire purpose of every forum on the internet to talk a lot, stray mostly off-topic, and then have the last post talk about semantics? ()

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, alfriday said:

Seriously, think about it...someone else could hit the shots based on your decisions.

So.

Different thing entirely.

Pretty much everyone will choose the same simple decision. "Oh, hit driver down the left side of this fairway because there is a pond right" is not something that separates golfers.

The actual physical ability to do that reliably does.

3 minutes ago, bones75 said:

stray mostly off-topic

No.

[bones75]

1 minute ago, alfriday said:

Seriously, think about it...someone else could hit the shots based on your decisions.

 

So.   

 

 

I think some of us were talking more who stays cool and keeps their judgment in tact in competition (e.g. staying focused, being under pressure)

[JonMA1]

I think there are extreme situations where emotions can can have a substantial impact on performance. And there are days when I just can't concentrate or relax or whatever and it has some effect on how I play.

But for day-in-and-day-out variances (at my level and my game), it's almost all about trying to execute quality shots with poor mechanics. Having a poor basic swing creates more difficulty and leads to more chances to f-up. I can't out-think that.

37 minutes ago, alfriday said:

Am I the only one who finds iacas's comments ironic.  

I mean, this is the guy who wrote LSW--a book about strategy, about building a "proper GamePlan [that] will help you drop multiple strokes using the game you have today."  (p. 139.)

 I would put my strategy and my decision-making up against any low capper. Guess what? I still suck at this game because..... my mechanics suck.

[Lihu]

9 minutes ago, bones75 said:

I think some of us were talking more who stays cool and keeps their judgment in tact in competition (e.g. staying focused, being under pressure)

None of that makes any difference for me at least. Unless, I'm breaking clubs over the tee box or something like that?

I've learned the swing from a ground up approach, so the swing is the swing. Where I end up is another matter entirely. . .the ball lands where it lands. What can you do about it at that point?

Once you feel like you gave the best swing you could take at the ball, the rest is icing on the cake. You look at the lie and where you want to hit it, then look at where the club you select will likely end up, decide what club looks the safest to hit, setup at the ball, take a practice swing, then walk up to the ball and swing. . .Where's the "mental" aspect of that?

Edited September 26, 2017 by Lihu