My Swing (Secretmove)

[Secretmove]

Here is a drill I've devised for myself over the winter.  I usually beat balls once or twice a week, but I'm not getting anywhere, so I'm too old to expect different results doing same thing.  Prevent injury.  Slow motion indoor golf swings in the man cave on video, what a better way to train muscle memory.  Please comment and suggest refinements, as I say on the video, its going to be 5000 reps before spring with this drill and others, so I need to get it right. 

 

[Secretmove]

more drill P3 to P5.5 down the line.  The momentum is carrying me into P6, but I didn't intend this, just getting to know the drill, which I devised for myself.  Please comment.  I didn't say anything about ending up at P5.5 with 50/50 weight left/right, but I just over looked that.  I'm actually not sure about that, I know I'll have to get to 80/20 left right, but the ground pressures come into play so much from P5 to P8 I didn't want to get into it here, beyond the scope of this simple 1,2,3 drill.  

 

[billchao]

@Secretmove please embed your videos in the future.

https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos/

[iacas]

Highly unlikely that you're 80/20:

That's fine if you're using a feel to get there. That's not a bad position, really, or checkpoint.

But your weight is nowhere near 80/20. Your pressure may not even reach that level (it'll be close, though).

FWIW.

[Secretmove]

Yes, Erik, agree, that 80/20 was me repeating an Andrew Rice video where he was swing a medicine ball on YouTube, the video I talk about in my next video.  I have another video where I measure actual static weight transfer and have the actual numbers.  Thanks, Emmet.  

I pushed the feature that embeds videos, but I did something wrong, will try it again.  

 

[iacas]

  On 12/29/2017 at 3:40 PM, Secretmove said:

Yes, Erik, agree, that 80/20 was me repeating an Andrew Rice video where he was swing a medicine ball on YouTube, the video I talk about in my next video.  I have another video where I measure actual static weight transfer and have the actual numbers.  Thanks, Emmet.  

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As I think you know, you can't measure actual static weight transfer. The golf swing isn't static. If you pause, or can freeze at any position, you can measure "weight." Dynamics, yeah, are pressure, or still more realistically… force. Pressure is force over an area, and I kinda hate how the golf industry just mixes the terms all together.

What we have in the LSW book is a rough approximation done by estimating the weight of various segments of the body and then kinda averaging them into a general model. We actually erred a little - a few points - on the impact number because the weight doesn't quite get that far forward, but pressure can and does (or more, up to 95% or so).

Anyway, do you have links to the actual videos he's discussing? Feel free to embed them here.

60/40 at 2:15, sure. The 70% you get to at A7/P7, yeah, that's about right (you can get to 75% if the hips are a bit more open). Not quite the 85% in LSW (the 85% can be realistic, but we also wanted to push people into going for a bit more. If you tell them 70%, they may stop short of it and think they've achieved it).

When you create the "90%" on the downswing, of course, that's not a move you make in golf - to re-flex the knee and instantly extend it to push off the right foot. So I'd be a bit careful with that thing.

Your 100% isn't entirely accurate, because it's not a position you can statically hold. I get what you're saying, but the people who would lift their heel off the ground and claim that they've shifted 90% of their weight to the back foot were using the lifted heel as an example of that. That prompted me to make this video a long time ago:

So…

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I like where you are at A3-A5.5. I don't think that's a bad drill at all. I think if you can hit a foam ball or something, that'll help, because making swings with a ball helps to transfer the stuff you're working on better. You have a pretty good understanding of things. I'd be careful about the "jump" involving the trail foot/leg - that doesn't really happen that way. But the rest is pretty good.

Do you have any questions or comments, or put another way, how can I help?

  On 12/29/2017 at 3:40 PM, Secretmove said:

I pushed the feature that embeds videos, but I did something wrong, will try it again.  

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https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos/

You just paste in the URL to the video. The site embeds for you. Hopefully it's pretty easy.

[Secretmove]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my swing drill.  I will give you a search title of the Andrew Rice video on youtube, a search with this title will take you right there.  If I pasted the url in this text box, I think it would not embed, what ever that is.  The title is "Facts on position and weight transfer Andrew Rice golf".  Type that in google or youtube, you should get the video, I just checked, its on there now.    

Watched your video, funny I was finding out on my own same as you did to a certain extent.  Agree on the silly bounce off the right foot, I was just riffing on adding pressure down the right leg to gravity to get more total pressure on right leg to explore a concept, I don't do that with the drill.  With my golf course swing, I don't lift my left heel at all, although I might start doing that, just to get my left leg knee in that nice bowed squat position.  I'm still doing the lifting of the entire left foot and planting down in the drill, I love the exaggerated weight transfer feeling that gives.   On the other hand, lifting the left heal only and slamming it down gives me the feeling of rotating my left knee forward more into the Sam Sneed squat, which I've never had before.  Cheers.  thanks again for your thoughtful response.  

[iacas]

  On 1/1/2018 at 5:23 PM, Secretmove said:

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my swing drill.  I will give you a search title of the Andrew Rice video on youtube, a search with this title will take you right there.  If I pasted the url in this text box, I think it would not embed, what ever that is.  The title is "Facts on position and weight transfer Andrew Rice golf".  Type that in google or youtube, you should get the video, I just checked, its on there now.

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Yeah, it embeds. Please just embed videos. This site is great for that stuff: https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos/.

  On 1/1/2018 at 5:23 PM, Secretmove said:

I'm still doing the lifting of the entire left foot and planting down in the drill, I love the exaggerated weight transfer feeling that gives.

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From my Junior Elite camp just yesterday…

So… yeah. No problem with drills like that.

  On 1/1/2018 at 5:23 PM, Secretmove said:

On the other hand, lifting the left heal only and slamming it down gives me the feeling of rotating my left knee forward more into the Sam Sneed squat, which I've never had before.  Cheers.  thanks again for your thoughtful response.  

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Thank you!

P.S. Yeah, his 80/20 is bull. But the video is from 2011.

[Secretmove]

 

 

I was out today taking my first swings after a three year layoff.  I talked my way into a big box store and they let me hit for 20 bucks, so I filmed it and was calibrating my club head speed radar gaget there in front of me against the other gaget they had.  Their device had me at about 100, my gaget said 108, I'm going with that. 

I read Erics book and am teeing it 4 inches forward, so that's kind of messing with me here.  ON this swing, my intention is to get everything on my left.  Bit rusty.   still am leaking power at impact, no shaft lean, down with right shoulder freezes my turn and a flip about p7.5 .  Same old Sh)(*&(*&(*.  I don't swing this hard normally, I'm trying here to max my CH speed.  I had a few past 115, but I am not sure if that is my gaget adding 5 or something.  I'm going to take that gaget to other stores, see what the average is.  I think I remember hitting it around 275 when I quit with roll out.  I'd like to fix that flip and swing left, going to focus on getting the right shoulder less steep and more around, hips should follow.  Also, I'm staying back with the weight, probably because of steep shoulders freezing my turn.  We'll see as time goes on.  Not bad for 59, the old man can still hit it. 

[iacas]

Why would you care about a flip at A7.5?

Serious question. Who cares? It's after impact. And the ball - with a driver - is on a tee.

[Secretmove]

Why not settle with the flip?  I can't hit it consistently, missing both directions pull hook push slice, all over the club face, and injuring my left elbow, strain and tendonitis.  Cant flight the ball low.  At any rate, I made an analysis and came up with a remedy based on an arms first approach with less energy dumped early at P6 with bad  body first transition which lags arms and whips them at the ball, with little ground force and just horizontal arm whip flip.  Good news its an athletic swing with plenty of speed for my age, my left shoulder returns exactly where it started, just need to do what I say in next video. 

 

[iacas]

  On 1/6/2018 at 3:37 PM, Secretmove said:

Why not settle with the flip?  I can't hit it consistently, missing both directions pull hook push slice, all over the club face, and injuring my left elbow, strain and tendonitis.  Cant flight the ball low.

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Well then the flip is affecting stuff well before 7.5. When you said the flip was seen at 7.5, that's well after impact, so that's why I asked. I don't worry about many flips that occur after impact.

So yeah, if it's actually before impact, sure, fix it.

[Secretmove]

Love this 10 degree weather, forcing me to drill baby drill.  Learning way more this way than machine gunning range balls. 

Scales have fallen from before my eyes, I see the world anew.  You can see what I see, watch Bobby Lopez shoulder videos, especially the one where he's analyzing tour pros swings on slow motion video and tracing their left shoulder.  Watch Mike Malaska videos where he's explaining what Nickalus was trying to say.  Watch Monte Scheinblum videos no turn cast drill.  Watch Toney Luczac

its arms first baby. 

Body bump first feels like power, but it just a flip city after ball move. 

[iacas]

  On 1/7/2018 at 4:00 PM, Secretmove said:

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I'm glad you like the video, and if it results in good things for you, cool.

But to pretend that it's "science" or anything… ehhhhh, we'll have to agree to disagree there.

We can't throw a ball very fast with a straight arm? Tell that to a softball pitcher or a cricket bowler.

The right wrist doesn't hinge up and down? Yeah, it does.

The sequence is supposed to be "arms, body, and then club." No, and we have plenty of data from good players showing that to be false.

This is teaching a feel, but without having a student in front of you to do it. It's not the "real" stuff, it's the "feel" stuff. If the "feel" of the arms going first helps you, if you're the student for which this feel works, cool. I've given that feel to some people. But… yeah. It's not "science" and it's just teaching a feel without even discussing who might actually benefit from the feel.

[Secretmove]

 

James Parker, lots of videos online, good analysis of O'Grady, modeled his swing obviously with O'Grady, SnT and Justin Rose in mind. 

[Secretmove]

  On 1/7/2018 at 4:43 PM, iacas said:

The sequence is supposed to be "arms, body, and then club." No, and we have plenty of data from good players showing that to be false.

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 I have  evidence your age old dogma has prevented me from next level results, and evidence from multiple  highest level teachers that arms first is the concept and feel to go with, especially as a drill.  I've followed that feet, then hips then hands  dogma for years, and it doesn't work for me.  I'll name two tour pros it doesn't work for either.  Justin Rose and Jack.  All Jack was doing was trying to get the hands in front of chest as soon as possible.  The rest of his lower body reacted to that.   If you think he was driving the legs to whip his hands to impact, please review Malaska's videos, he should know, he asked Jack personally about it.  Please review Justin Rose's video I included earlier.  Arms first. 

https://www.bebettergolf.net/home/tony-luczak-making-the-case-for-a-right-arm-lead-motion

arms first is a concept and a feel, just like the dogma feet first then hips then arms then hands  which ruined any chance of getting next level results for me, I've heard that 50 years ago and followed it  just like everybody else and it  contributed to a life long flip and poor ball striking when I was playing college golf.   

[virtuoso]

Secret, did you read the other sentences he wrote?

If the "feel" of the arms going first helps you, if you're the student for which this feel works, cool. I've given that feel to some people. 

Edited January 8, 2018 by virtuoso

[iacas]

  On 1/8/2018 at 4:53 PM, Secretmove said:

I have  evidence your age old dogma has prevented me from next level results, and evidence from multiple  highest level teachers that arms first is the concept and feel to go with, especially as a drill.

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@Secretmove, you misunderstood or misread what I wrote. As @virtuoso said…

  On 1/8/2018 at 5:22 PM, virtuoso said:

Secret, did you read the other sentences he wrote?

If the "feel" of the arms going first helps you, if you're the student for which this feel works, cool. I've given that feel to some people. 

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I said the sequence is actually what we've always known it to be - from the ground up. Legs/hips, torso, arms, clubhead… standard kinematic sequence type stuff. Each segment starts in order (generally), and peaks in order before slowing down. All segments slow down before impact except the clubhead, which ideally reaches peak speed at the ball.

Those are the facts of how high level golfers use their bodies.

I then said, as @virtuoso pointed out, that the feel may be very different for you. Cuz, as we should all know…

C'mon, @Secretmove. I spend my life on this stuff. I'm not just gonna throw out "age old dogma" and I'd appreciate a better reading of my commentary before you throw out the pejoratives.

  On 1/8/2018 at 4:53 PM, Secretmove said:

I'll name two tour pros it doesn't work for either.  Justin Rose and Jack.

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Both of whom follow the same old kinematic sequence as every other PGA Tour player.

What they feel is an entirely different thing. Hell, the guy I work with - @david_wedzik - was trained during his Web.com  days by Mike Bender. Mike would often tell Dave things like "the clubhead has the furthest to travel, so you move it first and move it the fastest." Yet, like every other good player, Dave started the downswing with his lower body.

  On 1/8/2018 at 4:53 PM, Secretmove said:

arms first is a concept and a feel,

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Yeah… exactly like I said!