What bounce and grind for a 52 58 wedge setup?

[Roenie]

What bounce and grinds would you use on a 52 and 58, in a setup with a 47 degree PW?
I'm looking into getting wedges that would allow me to use this set of lofts so I can drop a wedge from the bag.

The 58 will basically be my lob and sand wedge, and my bunker club of choice most of the time. For somewhat longer sand shots the 52 will be used. This makes it hard to choose the right bounce and grind because both clubs will need to play well opened up, without raising the leading edge, but both are used from the sand too, for which higher bounce usually helps.

The gap between 52 and 58 is large enough that I'm going to want to open the 52.
The 58 not being a 62-64 will need to be opened too when playing flops.

The popular strategy of one club having low bounce and the other high bounce I think may not work well here?
Should I get 8-ish bounce with a C or M grind for both the 52 and 58?

The technique I plan hope on using with the 58 out of sand is Luke Donald's, he shows it in this youtube video.
Because effective bounce can be added using the trailing edge, I'm hoping I can have the bounce on the clubs relatively low to not sacrifice bare lie playability at least for one of the clubs.

What bounce and grind (and therefore which brand+model of wedge, I guess) would you go for, given these lofts?
Or, would you not go this route at all because the wedges have to be a compromise, given that the 58 is my lob as well as my sand wedge?
Your thoughts will be much appreciated.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Roenie

[WUTiger]

2 hours ago, Roenie said:

What bounce and grind (and therefore which brand+model of wedge, I guess) would you go for, given these lofts?

I would suggest you get a fitting. We know nothing about your swing steepness or the turf conditions under which you play.

For longer sand shots, don't be afraid to use a 9i with a 3/4 swing. Experiment with this before you go live.

[iacas]

Get a good amount of bounce on both with some heel/toe relief for versatility.

I like a lot of bounce without a wide sole. Lots of bounce, lots of camber, lots of trailing edge/heel/toe relief.

[Roenie]

7 hours ago, WUTiger said:

We know nothing about your swing steepness or the turf conditions under which you play.

I don't know why people want to label themselves and other players as either a digger or a sweeper. I'm neither, but sometimes one or the other. It depends on the situation. One thing I don't like is being forced to use shaft lean to avoid leading with the leading edge. Doesn't mean I don't use shaft lean, I often do, I just don't like to be forced into it.

Conditions...a range of conditions that averages about average. Temperate climate (Netherlands), we get a good amount of rain each year so the course can be completely saturated with water, with puddles but I avoid playing on or after bad weather days because it's just misery... in summer it can be dry (up to 30 C) for a week or two on end, firming up the course, but this too is a bit rare. Fluffy lies are rare here, too. Short fairway turf. Sand is often semi compacted, fluffy sand lies don't happen too often either.

7 hours ago, iacas said:

Get a good amount of bounce on both with some heel/toe relief for versatility.

I like a lot of bounce without a wide sole. Lots of bounce, lots of camber, lots of trailing edge/heel/toe relief.

What benefits does a narrower high bounce sole offer over a wider, lower bounce sole and vice versa?

Edited February 27, 2018 by Roenie

[Piz]

Hey Roenie...been a while.  As for sloppy conditions; I have better luck with less bounce and more flange.  The reason, I think, is that bounce works best when there is something to bounce off of.  When the ground is very soft; it is better to skim the surface, so to speak, rather than take a divot.  To that end; a club with a wide, flat, sole is easier to use.  Think of it as a mud ski.  Out of the sand...depends on how you like to play the shot; the steeper your AoA the more bounce you need.  

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Roenie said:

What benefits does a narrower high bounce sole offer over a wider, lower bounce sole and vice versa?

Narrower sole widths = more versatility.

[onthehunt526]

I'd go with more bounce on the 58° wedge and a little less on the 52° wedge.

[Roenie]

Coud you elaborate on why a bit, please? Wouldn't that compromise the 58's ability to be used off hardpan / tight lies? Typically those kinds of shots tend to fly lower, so it's likely the 58 would be the go-to club for that.

...as well as for bunkers....

I've been thinking maybe something like this would work? :
58/4-6 lob also used as the main sand club always opening the face and leaning the handle back to create bounce as needed in the sand by utilizing the trailing edge. This way the club may not need much built-in bounce, so it's still good for hardpan and bare lies.

52/8 gap wedge slightly more bounce because it's used for full approach shots as well as chipping. (I don't like too much bounce when chipping.)

Still not sure. Creating my own bounce to use a 58 as my main sand club might prove difficult to execute with consistency. I have no idea how hard it would be before purchasing, because my current SW has plenty of bounce and there's no golf store with a bunker.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Roenie

[dennyjones]

13 minutes ago, Roenie said:

52/8 gap wedge slightly more bounce because it's used for full approach shots as well as chipping. (I don't like too much bounce when chipping.)

why?

[Roenie]

Makes me paranoid about irregularities in the surface causing the leading edge to rise and striking the ball with the leading edge instead of the clubface, thus causing a tendency for additional forward shaft lean, a steeper attack angle and too much left side focused posture (too much over the left foot). In other words, more bounce on chip shots just makes me dig more.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Roenie

[iacas]

Did you see the video of me hitting a high soft pitch from hardpan with a 60 degree wedge with 22 degrees of bounce?

[Groucho Valentine]

I also use a 47, 52 and 58 setup on my wedges. 

I use a 52/8 and a 58/11 90% of the time. I keep a second 58 degree with 8 bounce and will use that depending on the course. You'll have less help from the lower bounced wedge greenside, but you can do more things with them as far as opening the blade and how you want to sole it. It i feel like around 10-11 degrees is a good compromise between a high and low bounce 58 if you're stuck. 

[onthehunt526]

31 minutes ago, Roenie said:

Coud you elaborate on why a bit, please? Wouldn't that compromise the 58's ability to be used off hardpan / tight lies? Typically those kinds of shots tend to fly lower, so it's likely the 58 would be the go-to club for that.

...as well as for bunkers....

I've been thinking maybe something like this would work? :
58/4-6 lob also used as the main sand club always opening the face and leaning the handle back to create bounce as needed in the sand by utilizing the trailing edge. This way the club may not need much built-in bounce, so it's still good for hardpan and bare lies.

52/8 gap wedge slightly more bounce because it's used for full approach shots as well as chipping. (I don't like too much bounce when chipping.)

Still not sure. Creating my own bounce to use a 58 as my main sand club might prove difficult to execute with consistency. I have no idea how hard it would be before purchasing, because my current SW has plenty of bounce and there's no golf store with a bunker.

Not necessarily on the hard pan..I didn't mean play the 58° with like 16° of bounce or 22° like Erik. I meant about 10° with the 58° and 6° or 8° with the 52°.

Like you @Roenie I carry a 47° PW. I own a 60° but I usually struggle with it. So it usually is not in my bag. (I think I just need some practice). 

@iacas, correct me, if I'm wrong, I want to say plays 14° in his 48°, 17° in his 54°, and 22° in his 60°. 

I can't remember if you want more or less bounce for hard pan or tight lies.

I personally use a variety of clubs when chipping, less bounce is good, so usually it's a PW or 9I... But a 52/8 could work. 

In your OP you said your 58 was going to be a sand/lob wedge. Sand wedges typically have more bounce than "lob" wedges unless you are of the Digger profile in Edel's fitting. Personally I'd split the difference, try to get around 10° of bounce or so. You can always use different parts of the leading edge for different shots.

[Roenie]

18 minutes ago, iacas said:

Did you see the video of me hitting a high soft pitch from hardpan with a 60 degree wedge with 22 degrees of bounce?

No, do you have a link? That said, bounce worries me more on short chips where surface irregularities can more easily push up the leading edge, than on a pitch shot where the club is moving with much more momentum.

In terms of the 58, it would be used to chip with every so often, and I'll want to be able to open it up quite a lot for lobs to do the job of a 60-64.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Roenie

[iacas]

@Roenie you can find it.

With a little shaft lean you reduce bounce anyway.

[Roenie]

32 minutes ago, onthehunt526 said:

I can't remember if you want more or less bounce for hard pan or tight lies.

Imagine a sole a foot wide, with 40 degrees of bounce. Also imagine concrete. You'd have to lean the shaft forward 40 degrees to use the clubface. So yeah, typically people want less (within reason) for hard pan/tight lies. The alternative is shaft lean, which delofts the club.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Roenie

[onthehunt526]

3 minutes ago, Roenie said:

Imagine a sole a foot wide, with 40 degrees of bounce. Also imagine concrete. So yeah, typically people want less (within reason) for hard pan/tight lies.

There's a video on YouTube where Lee Trevino (I love Lee's personality). Hits from hard pan. He grew up on the stuff, so he would know. I think if you have some shaft lean, it won't matter. Mainly because it reduces the bounce. If you reduce the loft, you also reduce the bounce.

[Roenie]

Most of the time I'll have to add a little loft to the 58. (I open a 56 SW beyond 58 degrees of loft.) Reducing its loft is often not what you want because that defeats the purpose of a high lofted club.

If you make a 58 easier in the sand (more bounce), I think there has to be some acceptance of having to reduce the loft for tight lies.

Guess I'll try 52/8 and 58/6 or similar. (Both with heel relief.)

Edited March 1, 2018 by Roenie