Drop From Cart Path When OB Comes Into Play

[RickK]

Would appreciate some help with this situation.  Player hits ball over the green and ball ends up on cart path.  The obvious spot to drop would be on side of cart path keeping the cart path between the player and the green.  The problem that comes into play is that full relief from path would put the player's drop OB.  I would assume that player would need to find NPR where he can drop the ball and have full relief from the cart path and the ball not be dropped OB.  

Now comes the rub....there is a boundary fence down the length of the cart path behind the green.  Can I "assume" that he if he can find relief no closer to the hole where he has full relief from the cart path and then the fence comes into play in his back swing that he would either have to play the ball or now take an unplayable lie?

This discussion came up because the fence was actually in play from where his ball lay on the cart path.  My take was that he was entitled to full relief from the path but he could not go backwards and drop (fence or no fence because his drop would have been OB). 

 

[David in FL]

Unless I am misunderstanding your description, you’re correct.  “Relief” does not necessarily mean “better”.  This would be one of those situations, where you’d likely be better off not taking relief, and simply playing the ball as it lies.

Having said that, what do you mean by “taking full relief would put the player’s drop OB”?    If the player could drop the ball off of the cart path, with the ball in bounds, even if just barely, and still take a stance to play the shot, even if he is standing out of bounds he could do so.   He only needs to take full relief, including stance, from the cart path.

 It also may be possible that the NPR could be on the side of the cart path closer to the green, with an NPR that isn’t actually closer to the green than the original lie....

Edited January 29, 2019 by David in FL

[Missouri Swede]

I think you’re right.

He can take relief from the cartpath, but the nearest point of complete relief might not be a desirable location (such as in a place where a boundary fence interferes with stance or swing).

So his choices are (1) play it as it lies on the cartpath, (2) play shot again from previous location under stroke and distance penalty, or (3) take relief from cartpath and (3a) muddle through the best he can from the nearest point of complete relief or (3b) decide his ball is unplayable at the nearest point of complete relief and then take relief from this new location with 1 stroke penalty under rule 19.2.

That’s my take on this. We’ll see what the better-informed come up with.

[iacas]

The two posts thus far have pretty much nailed it.

• If he can't take complete relief (including his stance) and remain in bounds, then that's not an NPR.
• If there's an NPR, even on the side of the path closer to the green, then he can drop there.
• If there's NPR (complete relief) on the far side of the cart path, but the fence interferes, so be it - the fence interferes.

If the first or second is achievable, he probably would want to take relief. If the third is the best option, he probably should play it as it lies.

If you can, post a graphic or tell us the coordinates on Google Earth or Maps or something.

@RickK, the last sentence is for you, sorry. If you can post a URL to the map and it should embed here on the site.

[RickK]

here is a pic from Google Earth reflecting the coordinates.  The fence is to the left of the bunkers under the trees which overhang.  

I believe we got the ruling right.  We determined NPR was farther back but on green side of the cart path to get complete relief from standing on the cart path.  

There was a discussion that he was not entitled to relief because of the fence from his original lie.  My understanding was that since his ball was on the cart path, he was entitled to relief.  Once it was determined where the closest point was that he could get full relief from the cart path with the ball in bounds...that is when the fence comes into play.  If it was in his backswing...then he had to decide what to do.  In this case, NPR was on green side of the cart path...fortunately for him.

Thanks for the input...greatly appreciated.

[iacas]

Since "no closer to the hole" is along a radius from the hole, it looks like he could find a point of relief on the right side of the cart path.

[RickK]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Since "no closer to the hole" is along a radius from the hole, it looks like he could find a point of relief on the right side of the cart path.

Correct.  As I stated, the whole point of contention was the fence.  The fact that you do not get relief from boundary objects, one opinion was that he did not get relief from the cart path.  My understanding was that first you find NPR from the cart path and then and only then does the fence come into play.  Luckily for the player, NPR took the fence out of play for him.  

[Rulesman]

He could have taken S&D of course. Sometimes it pays off.

[jlbos83]

The important thing is that while you don't get relief from the fence, you can't drop OB.  We have a similar situation on a hole I play often.  You just find the first spot not closer to the hole on the inbounds side of the path.  It can't be too far away, if you think about it.