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Posted

Been playing for 30+ years and am ready to put in the time to get down to the low numbers, I have been told I pick the ball instead of trapping and would be better off in the long run with more of a trapping swing. On a recent clinic he had me setup up with my right foot on my toes to probably get the correct spine angle, I hit the ball very well from this stance so I'm wondering if there are any other drills/techniques to develop a more trapping/descending blow on the ball.I want to post a video of my swing ASAP I just am not very computer literate so it may take some time to get someone to help me out.


Posted

In "The Elements of Scoring" Raymond Floyd advocates a shallower plane and picking the ball over trapping.  Not really sure why.  Possibly because he feels it leads to fewer fat misses.  I'm guessing that if one must miss, then thin is the way to go.  However the majority of professionals I see have a steeper plane and usually take a nice divot.  I personally prefer the steeper angle to trap the ball.


Posted

For me trapping the ball does two beneficial things. It produces an almost self correcting contact. I almost never hit big pulls, pushes, slices, or hooks when I hit down and achieve good trapping contact. Second, it gives gives much better distance with nice trajectory and great feel.

Although, I constantly have to work to hit the ball this way. Whenever I am tired, lazy, or have no mojo, I start creeping back to a more sweeping swing where I usually hit just a bit thin.

dak4n6


  • Moderator
Posted
Originally Posted by onesome

Been playing for 30+ years and am ready to put in the time to get down to the low numbers, I have been told I pick the ball instead of trapping and would be better off in the long run with more of a trapping swing. On a recent clinic he had me setup up with my right foot on my toes to probably get the correct spine angle, I hit the ball very well from this stance so I'm wondering if there are any other drills/techniques to develop a more trapping/descending blow on the ball.I want to post a video of my swing ASAP I just am not very computer literate so it may take some time to get someone to help me out.

Good chance the handle isn't far enough forward at impact.  This is a "drill" that I've been doing to help speed up the arms, get them down and forward faster.  I make sure my left knee is flexed, left shoulder doesn't rise as I lower the arms down, right hand is in front of my right thigh.  I few "pumps" and then I hit it.  You know you're doing it right when the ball launches high.

Here's another one, obviously shot trajectory will be lower with this one.

Mike McLoughlin

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Posted

Hey MvMac, don't you mean you know you are doing it right when the ball launches LOW?

I have used the same kind of pump drill, visualising strongly where I want the clubshaft to be at impact - seems to work nicely.

And OP - picking the ball is fine. seems to give better overall distance control. I have been all - picker and muncher. Munching it makes it go further and lowr and more spin and you can hit it better of bad lies. But if ur in the fairway with a nice lie, I would take picking every day, as long as it doesn't cause you to come under plane to do it.


Posted
Originally Posted by Adam Young

Hey MvMac, don't you mean you know you are doing it right when the ball launches LOW?

Goes high, but launches low?  With this kind of action, I'm launching it lower than ever, but hitting it higher than ever, so I'm curious about his response...

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Posted
Originally Posted by Adam Young

Hey MvMac, don't you mean you know you are doing it right when the ball launches LOW?

I have used the same kind of pump drill, visualising strongly where I want the clubshaft to be at impact - seems to work nicely.

Should actually hit it high with what I'm doing.  The one Erik is doing (in the green shirt), the hit and stop will be the lower shot due to the lack of the extension and ascent pieces on the followthrough.  Both are good for what the OP is trying to do.  I'm getting the handle to lower the most, creating a decent amount ground pressure so I can extend everything into the followthrough.  Legs extend, butt tucks and the handle of the club raises.  If I kept the hands from ascending or kept my legs flexed, then the ball would launch lower.

I should also add Erik's latest video to this thread

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Posted

Thanks for all the responses and as I suspected there were some that advocated or felt there is nothing wrong with picking as did the instructor at my clinics, just my perception though is that "trapping"seems to be the more popular method among low handicaps. Before I think I was really releasing/casting at the bottom more than I am now and am probably hitting the ball more like a "real" pick than before. One thing I do is try and keep my right hand palm down through impact to increase the downward strike or deloft the club but I think I may overdo this because Ill restrict the release so much I'll have a pleasant shank, I don't let that discourage me because I know I'm overdoing it.One other thing is what is a good drill to keeping your left wrist flat at the top in line with your forearm?


Posted
Originally Posted by mvmac

Should actually hit it high with what I'm doing.  The one Erik is doing (in the green shirt), the hit and stop will be the lower shot due to the lack of the extension and ascent pieces on the followthrough.  Both are good for what the OP is trying to do.  I'm getting the handle to lower the most, creating a decent amount ground pressure so I can extend everything into the followthrough.  Legs extend, butt tucks and the handle of the club raises.  If I kept the hands from ascending or kept my legs flexed, then the ball would launch lower.

I should also add Erik's latest video to this thread

MvMac - how does getting the shaft leaning more forward launch the ball higher - or am I misconstruing what you are working on?

Erik - good work on the swing, I can't help but feel that your right shoulder is very hunched up at around 40-45 second, and that relaxing it down into a more neutral position will allow the right arm to fold more naturally and hence shaft to work more up the line. I don't know the entire history of what you are working on though - I noticed it in one of the chipping vids too - very likely the reason for that tipping of the shaft you get on the downswing


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Posted
Originally Posted by Adam Young

MvMac - how does getting the shaft leaning more forward launch the ball higher - or am I misconstruing what you are working on?

Face is aimed right at impact.

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Posted
Originally Posted by mvmac

An outward moving downward strike on the back side of the circle (before low point) with the club perpendicular to the arc, requires the face to be open (more right facing) or some even say you're maintaining the positive loft of the club.  The pros hitting the high draws have the face aimed right and the handle forward, weight forward, they don't have the face aimed left like most golfers.  That's why we see manufacturers making clubs with the CG super low and away from the face to get the ball in the air.

Also, ensuring that the handle is raising helps monitor the AOA, so hitting shots off the ground with the handle forward, club face aimed right.  I'm hitting a 7 iron in the video and I'd bet the aoa isn't more than 3 or 4 down.  If the handle doesn't raise, going to increase the aoa, and obviously spin loft (assuming dynamic loft stays about the same) which means the ball will go lower.

To hit the ball the highest we would have low point forward with a club face aiming right.  Would never had low point back or at the ball with the shaft or clubface neutral.

interesting stuff, yeah I tend to hit a high draw so can relate to this.

so having the handle forward delofts the club, but also puts the effective path of the club more in to out which would allow a more open face to hit a draw which would mean more loft which negates the fact the handle is forward. IOW handle forwards and open face neutralise each other?

Wouldnt having the handle forward and hitting before the low point in the arc also hit the ball with a more open face naturally as the clubface is essentially in a more open position at this point in the arc?

Or are you changing your effective path by changing your swing direction to "in to out" also? or just purely through hitting on a different point in the arc?


  • Administrator
Posted

I don't know why Mike put my recent video in here. Because it's a TourStriker? I don't know. Mike?

Originally Posted by mvmac

To hit the ball the highest we would have low point forward with a club face aiming right.  Would never had low point back or at the ball with the shaft or clubface neutral.

Well, to be fair, to hit the ball the highest we'd have a face wide open with an AoA of zero if we could consistently strike the ball that way.

I think where people are getting confused Mike is that you're talking about hitting down on the ball and saying that the ball will go higher. You're skipping all the little steps in between because, all else equal , what you say is incorrect: steeper AoA = ball launches lower (and with more spin). So either don't leave out all the little parts about where the face has more loft or something, or just skip saying this altogether because it often causes confusion when you post it in the condensed "hit down to make the ball go higher" form. :)

Originally Posted by Adam Young

so having the handle forward delofts the club, but also puts the effective path of the club more in to out which would allow a more open face to hit a draw which would mean more loft which negates the fact the handle is forward. IOW handle forwards and open face neutralise each other?

Wouldnt having the handle forward and hitting before the low point in the arc also hit the ball with a more open face naturally as the clubface is essentially in a more open position at this point in the arc?

Or are you changing your effective path by changing your swing direction to "in to out" also? or just purely through hitting on a different point in the arc?

See? Almost no point in discussing it because who knows what Adam means when he talks about the handle being forward? You and I both know it's just barely forward - we're not de-lofting the thing a ton. But it doesn't come across that way, and we all get sucked into a weird vortex where we're saying "handle forwards" and meaning one inch and Adam's reading six inches, or who knows what.

Handle forward helps you hit the ball more solidly. Too far forwards or too far back and it's not as good. The end. :)

P.S. Not quite the end. "Trapping" is a feeling but in no way is the ball actually "trapped" between the clubface and the ground, at all, ever, on a well struck golf shot.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Posted
Originally Posted by iacas

So either don't leave out all the little parts about where the face has more loft or something, or just skip saying this altogether because it often causes confusion when you post it in the condensed "hit down to make the ball go higher" form. :)

My mistake, definitely was not my intent

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post

I don't know why Mike put my recent video in here. Because it's a TourStriker? I don't know. Mike?

The rehearsal swings

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  • Administrator
Posted
Originally Posted by mvmac

The rehearsal swings

Aha. Okay.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Note: This thread is 4899 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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