Club face at address

[GlasgowsGreen]

The other night my golf pro got me to address the ball with the club face slightly open .

I was expecting to hit the ball right every time but the result was actually nice draws.

I was still sceptical however and googled it when I got home. It didn’t take long before I found a Jack Nicklaus quote..

"I've never seen a really good player set it square or closed at address,"

Interested to find out other people’s views on this?

[GlasgowsGreen]

I read somewhere that the reason for doing this is that as you are setting up about a quarter of an inch behind the ball, the club face will close slightly as it passes through that point;

i.e. to hit the ball with a square club face you have to set up with a slightly open face. If you set up behind the ball with a square face you will actually be slightly closed at impact.

Personally I felt that it allowed me to set up with my hands ahead of the ball but without the feeling that I was delofting the club / hooding the ball. It also seemed to encourage a more in to out swing path.

[c peterich]

[URL=http://s1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii547/cpeterich/?action=view¤t;=moral-dont-drive-a-golf-cart-like-a-supercar.gif][IMG]http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii547/cpeterich/th_moral-dont-drive-a-golf-cart-like-a-supercar.gif[/IMG][/URL]I've never seen a really good player set it square or closed at address," So debatable.,,tommy bolt/chi chi Rodriquez/ Trevor dodds and Sam Snead ( to an extent) ..all had slightly closed face bias. Martin Chuck will have students setup with a super closed club face, and do all they can to not hook it off the map... A slotting drill he has . So no. Slightly open isn't the only way. But if it worked..than go for it

[hackmore]

I play with a slightly closed face at address and hit a nice draw, with irons mainly. A miss however is of course a slight pull to the left of the green but not really a hook any more Imagine keeping the face open at address would make the mind and body automatically adjust the swing to compensate?

[14ledo81]

If you are trying to play a push draw, the club face needs to be returned slightly open to the target. Closed in relation to the path

[freedrop]

The other night my golf pro got me to address the ball with the club face slightly open.

I was expecting to hit the ball right every time but the result was actually nice draws.

I was still sceptical however and googled it when I got home. It didn’t take long before I found a Jack Nicklaus quote..

"I've never seen a really good player set it square or closed at address,"

Interested to find out other people’s views on this?

Bang on with the Jack comment,I remember Jim Flick quoting him on that in Golf Digest.One of Leadbetter's PGA students on TGC a number of years ago said Leadbetter blew his mind when he told him the face had to be slightly open at address in order to hit a draw.

Also keep in mind,that the hands don't return to the same position at impact as they were at address,the left wrist/hand goes from cupped to flat, so that open look (which is actually square) returns at impact to what people normally call square.

[David in FL]

The other night my golf pro got me to address the ball with the club face slightly open.

I was expecting to hit the ball right every time but the result was actually nice draws.

I was still sceptical however and googled it when I got home. It didn’t take long before I found a Jack Nicklaus quote..

"I've never seen a really good player set it square or closed at address,"

Interested to find out other people’s views on this?

In relation to what? The target?

I tend to set up a little inside with my face slightly open to the target. I fight a bit of an over-the-top pull, and that helps me visualize the swing path I want for a stock shot.

Bang on with the Jack comment,I remember Jim Flick quoting him on that in Golf Digest.One of Leadbetter's PGA students on TGC a number of years ago said Leadbetter blew his mind when he told him the face had to be slightly open at address in order to hit a draw.

Also keep in mind,that the hands don't return to the same position at impact as they were at address,the left wrist/hand goes from cupped to flat, so that open look (which is actually square) returns at impact to what people normally call square.

Square to what, the target?  Not if they're hitting anything other than a dead straight shot.  If a golfer is going to curve the ball (either way) the club face is going to have to be open for a draw or closed for a fade to the target in order for the ball to work in to the target.  If the club is square to the target at impact, the result will be a draw that misses left or a fade that misses right.

[cuzcapri]

The other night my golf pro got me to address the ball with the club face slightly open.

I was expecting to hit the ball right every time but the result was actually nice draws.

I was still sceptical however and googled it when I got home. It didn’t take long before I found a Jack Nicklaus quote..

"I've never seen a really good player set it square or closed at address,"

Interested to find out other people’s views on this?

having an understanding of the ball flight laws you have to open the face and have an inside to outside swing path to hit a draw. i set up with an open club because my miss is a draw that crosses over my target line. something i work on when i get on a trac man.

[freedrop]

In relation to what? The target?

I tend to set up a little inside with my face slightly open to the target. I fight a bit of an over-the-top pull, and that helps me visualize the swing path I want for a stock shot.

Square to what, the target?  Not if they're hitting anything other than a dead straight shot.  If a golfer is going to curve the ball (either way) the club face is going to have to be open for a draw or closed for a fade to the target in order for the ball to work in to the target.  If the club is square to the target at impact, the result will be a draw that misses left or a fade that misses right.

Square in the hands which involves the weight of the club being properly controlled by the last 3 fingers of the left hand(RHplayer) and the middle two fingers of the right hand....easier said than done.

[c peterich]

I so have to go to a track man facility...and see these new ball flight laws in person. I just hate to travel 2 hours north or west to get there to just hit a ball in a net. My ball flight laws are my own personal ball flight..but would love to learn more on this.. Time to research this on the net Interesting

[David in FL]

Square in the hands which involves the weight of the club being properly controlled by the last 3 fingers of the left hand(RHplayer) and the middle two fingers of the right hand....easier said than done.

Square, with respect to the club face, is defined as perpendicular to a given line or plane.  It has nothing to do with the hands, the fingers, or the weight of the club.  But then, someone of your pedigree and credentials certainly knows that.

A good troll is at least somewhat entertaining.  Please try a little harder next time.

[MS256]

I so have to go to a track man facility...and see these new ball flight laws in person. I just hate to travel 2 hours north or west to get there to just hit a ball in a net. My ball flight laws are my own personal ball flight..but would love to learn more on this.. Time to research this on the net

Interesting

The "Old ball flight laws" were complete BS and the only thing I have a hard time figuring out is how anybody could not know they don't work after hitting a few balls (and a tree or two).

The "New ball flight laws" are right on the money but still misunderstood by many people that think they understand them.

[MiniBlueDragon]

I so have to go to a track man facility...and see these new ball flight laws in person. I just hate to travel 2 hours north or west to get there to just hit a ball in a net. My ball flight laws are my own personal ball flight..but would love to learn more on this.. Time to research this on the net

Interesting

Not specifically aimed at you c peterich but I hate the phrase, "new ball flight laws" - They're just an update to the old way of thinking but with evidence to the contrary or that which has been believed for many years. :)

They're *the* ball flight laws irrespective of what people feel like they're doing in the swing.

There's really no need to travel for 2 hours to hit balls into a net when there's already so much out there to watch and try for yourself. Or alternatively the way I convinced myself of the update was with a putter; I aimed the club face at my target and keeping the face pointing at the target I stroked the ball from 45 degrees out-to-in and the ball started pretty much straight, not out to the left 45 degrees as my swing path was. Similar to this video but with a putter.

[David in FL]

Not specifically aimed at you c peterich but I hate the phrase, "new ball flight laws" - They're just an update to the old way of thinking but with evidence to the contrary or that which has been believed for many years. :)

They're *the* ball flight laws irrespective of what people feel like they're doing in the swing.

There's really no need to travel for 2 hours to hit balls into a net when there's already so much out there to watch and try for yourself. Or alternatively the way I convinced myself of the update was with a putter; I aimed the club face at my target and keeping the face pointing at the target I stroked the ball from 45 degrees out-to-in and the ball started pretty much straight, not out to the left 45 degrees as my swing path was. Similar to this video but with a putter.

Exactly.

[cuzcapri]

Golf Ball Flight Diagram

The ball flight diagram below covers 9 different shot shapes and the names we give them.

I find that most amateur golfers label any shot that curves away sharply to the right (for the right-handed golfer) as a slice. But this isn’t the case…

A slice is golf ball that starts to the left of target and finishes to the right of target. If, as the ball flight diagram below shows, the golf ball starts right and then curves further right we call it a ‘push-slice’.

This isn’t just semantics or a case of golf professionals being overly fussy. What I might recommend to fix a slice could actual make a push-slicer’s problem worse and vice versa.

I’ve written a full, plain-English explanation of the ball flight laws in golf. I strongly recommend you read that article in conjunction with using the ball flight diagram below. Together, they will help you self-diagnose, and correct, any problem that might creep into your game:

Ball Flight Terminology (Right-Handed Golfer)

Pull-Hook (purple line)

Definition Ball starts left of target and curves further left of target.
What It Tells You Club face is closed at impact (pointing left relative to swing path). Your swing path may also be out-to-in but may also be straight or even in-to-out . Look at where your divots are pointing to determine your swing path.

Hook (yellow line)

Definition Ball starts right of target and curves back left to finish left of target.
What It Tells You Swing path is in-to-out (not necessarily a bad thing) and the club face is closed at impact (pointing left relative to swing path).

Pull (navy blue line)

Definition Ball starts and finishes left of target but stays straight in its flight (no curve).
What It Tells You Swing path is out-to-in and the club face is square to the swing path.

Fade (green line)

Definition Ball starts left of target and curves back right to finish on target.
What It Tells You As with a slice, the swing path is out-to-in and the club face is open at impact (pointing right relative to swing path). However, unlike a slice the ball must finish on the target line (not right of it) to be classed as a fade.

On Target (dotted line)

Definition Ball starts straight and stays straight in its flight to finish on target.
What It Tells You Your swing path is straight down the target line and your club face is square to the swing path (and target line in this case).

Draw (red line)

Definition Ball starts right of target and curves back left to finish on target.
What It Tells You As with a hook, the swing path is in-to-out and the club face is closed at impact (pointing left relative to swing path). However, unlike a hook the ball must finish on the target line (not left of it) to be classed as a draw.

Push (light blue line)

Definition Ball starts and finishes right of target but stays straight in its flight (no curve)
What It Tells You Swing path is in-to-out and the club face is square to the swing path.

Slice (pink line)

Definition Ball starts left of target and curves back right to finish right of target.
What It Tells You Swing path is out-to-in and the club face is open at impact (pointing right relative to swing path).

Push-Slice (orange line)

Definition Ball starts right of target and curves further right of target.
What It Tells You Club face is open at impact (pointing right relative to swing path). Your swing path may also be in-to-out but may also be straight or even out-to-in . Look at where your divots are pointing to determine your swing path.

[c peterich]

Makes a lot of sense.. I have 33 years now of reprogramming . When I learned golf, I was told to flip hands over to release the club... Teacher had no cameras, brought a chalk board to the lesson and would try and draw a stick figure of what I was doing as a junior ( true story). A excellent teacher though.. Times have changed..I'm trying to get out of the hogan complex..but all I know as of now.

[freedrop]

Square, with respect to the club face, is defined as perpendicular to a given line or plane.  It has nothing to do with the hands, the fingers, or the weight of the club.  But then, someone of your pedigree and credentials certainly knows that.

A good troll is at least somewhat entertaining.  Please try a little harder next time.

I can place the club face square to any line or plane you wish but if it's not in a properly balanced square position in the hands to begin with then the lines you are referring to are falsely placed and will be meaningless when the club head is flying at 100mph towards the ball.

[cuzcapri]

I so have to go to a track man facility...and see these new ball flight laws in person. I just hate to travel 2 hours north or west to get there to just hit a ball in a net. My ball flight laws are my own personal ball flight..but would love to learn more on this.. Time to research this on the net

Interesting

the trac man will give you the data tat you need to work on things that you already know about your ball flight so if you hit or struggle with a hook or over draw the ball the trac man can tell you why by how much of what you are doing. ex. i was on the trac man last week notice all my swings in to out by 12-14 degrees to the target line with a closed face to my swing path causing the the ball to draw more than i wanted it to. so i started to open the face and tryed not to drop the club so far to the inside .