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What makes a golf course "women-friendly"?


Golfgal
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Hi everyone.
I am heading to Arizona to review 4 golf courses in about a week (haven't chosen them all yet - have a list of 10 from which to choose). The reviews are for a women's golf magazine: " Fore Her Magazine ". So one of the criteria I want to use to rate the courses is "how women friendly it is".

Now that's a big question. For me, there are about 6-18 things I look for in a golf course, but I'd love to hear from both the ladies and men on this forum on what you think makes a course women friendly.

To get it started, here's one of mine.

Position of the forward tees.

Now I realize forward tees are about skill level and not about gender, but 95% of the women I know play from them and 0% of the guys do (except our son when he was 12), so let's just forget the political correctness for a minute and call them "the ladies tees" for now.

In my opinion (and I could be wrong, heaven forbid ;)), but I believe the ladies tees should be placed so that when she tees off, her ball should land roughly in the same area where the guys' balls are on the fairway. There is nothing worse than being last off the tee and first off the fairway on the 2nd shot. The courses I've played that received the GFW award had tee positions that seemed "fair" to me - ie. met the criteria I just mentioned. Those courses were fun to play because after the tee shot, it was a level playing field with the guys.

Anyway,that's one of mine. What criteria would you use to rate a course women friendly?

Thanks
Gayle

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In over 40 years of golf, I've never heard the term. Seems to me, that a golf course either caters to all golfers, without regard to gender, or it doesn't.

Having said that, it'll be interesting to hear what some women might want in a golf course that men do not.

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In my opinion (and I could be wrong, heaven forbid ;)), but I believe the ladies tees should be placed so that when she tees off, her ball should land roughly in the same area where the guys' balls are on the fairway. There is nothing worse than being last off the tee and first off the fairway on the 2nd shot.

That doesnt make much sense at least if you are trying to level the playing field. If you both land in the same spot and have 175 yards to the green, you might be hitting a 3 wood and I might be hitting a 6/7 iron. I would clearly have a better chance at hitting the green unless you shoot lasers with your 3 wood.

The way I see it is you have a disadvantage from the fairway if your approach shots are the same distance but have an advantage on par 3's. I would try and find a course where the majority of the par 4's, after your drive, you have a 6 or 7 iron into the green. I like the 5 iron rule for people trying to figure out what tees to hit. Its your 5 iron distance X 36. So I hit my 5 iron 190-195 so if I were picking a tee box it would be 7,020 yards. Does that make sense?

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That doesnt make much sense at least if you are trying to level the playing field. If you both land in the same spot and have 175 yards to the green, you might be hitting a 3 wood and I might be hitting a 6/7 iron. I would clearly have a better chance at hitting the green unless you shoot lasers with your 3 wood.

Yes, it makes sense. Usually I find that if I can hit as far as the guys off the tee (farther is nice too :)), I'm left with a fair shot into the green. I just hate it when I hit off the tee and have to run to my second shot because the guys are still closer to the green. That usually means to me that the red tees are too close to the whites.

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In over 40 years of golf, I've never heard the term. Seems to me, that a golf course either caters to all golfers, without regard to gender, or it doesn't.

Here's a picture of the award at Steele Canyon. The guy in the pro shop was so proud of it, he wanted to take it off the wall so I could take a picture of it (I didn't let him, which is why it is a bit blurry with the flash).

So yes, it would be nice is a golf course catered to all golfers, but that's not always the case and if something is missing, it's usually something a woman cares more about than a man. It's just the way it is....

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Yes, it makes sense. Usually I find that if I can hit as far as the guys off the tee (farther is nice too :)), I'm left with a fair shot into the green. I just hate it when I hit off the tee and have to run to my second shot because the guys are still closer to the green. That usually means to me that the red tees are too close to the whites.

Maybe the guys you are playing with should be playing from the blues, not the whites? I say that is someone who should be playing from the blues if you just look at my driving distance, but play from the whites because I really stink at approach shots.

But in general, yes, your second shot should be shorter then a man's of similar ability. Ideally you would be hitting the same clubs, so if on a particular hole he hits driver/6i then the forward tee would be setup that you would hit driver/6i. But of course nothing is ideal.

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Probably a wasp-nest-free bathroom with out the perma-stench of ones and twos might appeal to most women.

Per the award - Why did they use white text on the cloud?

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On our home course, the ladies tees are frequently placed such that women hit their drives into an uphill spot so they get no roll, whereas men would clear the hill and gets plenty of roll. This translates into a disproportionately harder second shot for women that does not properly reflect the physical difference between typical men and women golfers.
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To get it started, here's one of mine.

Yeah. For the "average" woman player and the "average" man player (whoever they are), I'd like as many of the par-4s as possible to play the same, or within a club or two. You know what I absolutely hate? When a men's long par-4 has a set of red tees 6 yards in front of the white tees and is called a par-5 for the women. That goes beyond unfriendly: it's downright unfair if we're playing match play. If you and I both make par on that hole in match play, I win because I made a 4 and you made a 5. A course I play frequently up here is par 72 for men, but 76 for women. There are 4 par-4s over 400 yards for the men (~425 from the white tees) that are just par-5s for the women. This upsets me, even when I'm not playing with women. Then there's the other extreme of woman friendly, and it fits into short hitting man friendly too. I don't like it when the first two sets of tees have a significant total distance difference. The course I played on Sunday is 6000 yards from the forward-most and 6700 from the second set. If you're playing one set well and have some distance, you should be able to move back without it being fundamentally different. I'm not sure how this fits into my previous requirement. I'm sure there's a way to do both. Lastly, and a bit related to that, is calling the forward tees the "women's" tees. It's a bit man-unfriendly to do that, too. Before I could break 100, I should have been playing from the reds at any course that had them ranked for men. Furthermore, it's a problem for the better women players. If you're a reasonably athletic woman and can hit a drive 200 yards and a PW 100, maybe you can play from the white tees. But there are courses where someone will correct you and say "women play from the red tees" or "men don't play from the red tees."

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On our home course, the ladies tees are frequently placed such that women hit their drives into an uphill spot so they get no roll, whereas men would clear the hill and gets plenty of roll. This translates into a disproportionately harder second shot for women that does not properly reflect the physical difference between typical men and women golfers.

Definitely NOT women-friendly!

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Here's a picture of the award at Steele Canyon. The guy in the pro shop was so proud of it, he wanted to take it off the wall so I could take a picture of it (I didn't let him, which is why it is a bit blurry with the flash).

That's why I said, I'm interested to hear what you ladies care about that you think men don't. I'm looking forward to learning something new......

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Yeah. For the "average" woman player and the "average" man player (whoever they are), I'd like as many of the par-4s as possible to play the same, or within a club or two.

Lots of intersting points Shindig. In terms of your last point, when I am 15-16 handicapper off the reds, I'll switch to the whites, but not before. Many men I've played with don't break 100 on the course, but insist on playing from the back because of egos. I watched this on Sunday - young guys hitting off the blues and barely making it past the reds (even more rarely hitting a FW). It was pathetic. They sprayed their balls off the tee. It held up play and frustrated my foursome. No marshalls around either to speed them up. I like courses where there are marshalls on the course (doing their jobs) and not just on the first tee. I am surprised the number of courses that don't have anyone on course. Maybe cutbacks are the problem - can't afford to pay them. I'd volunteer to marshall a course if they let me play for free.

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I don't know and I don't really care.
I am sure it involves not taking a leak wherever it's convenient.
Tough luck girls. Wear a catheter.

Best, Mike Elzey

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Obviously tee position is a big one. My home course also has a different par for women than it does for men. 2 long holes on the back 9 which are par 4 for men are par 5 for women, so the course is a par 74 for the ladies. The current card yardage from the forward tees is over 5700 yards.

The reason is that the course was built long enough ago that the current design philosophy wasn't used. The tee areas are not really big enough to move the forward tees up far enough on some holes, so they gave the women a couple of extra strokes to par to make it more attractive. The course is in the process of rebuilding the tees, and they are adding an additional forward tee box on most holes with the intent of having 4 options in stead of just 3. It's a slow process because there is only funding for a couple of tees each year. Eventually the course will have to be re-rated to accommodate the changes.

Rick

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Women requested toilets on the course couple years ago - last year their wish was granted. Thats pretty much all i can think of that is special for women on the course.

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I like courses where there are marshalls on the course (doing their jobs) and not just on the first tee. I am surprised the number of courses that don't have anyone on course. Maybe cutbacks are the problem - can't afford to pay them. I'd volunteer to marshall a course if they let me play for free.

This is a big problem for men and women. I've moved back to white tees at the courses I play for just this reason.

I am sure it involves not taking a leak wherever it's convenient.

I forgot about this. The course I played on Sunday didn't have a restroom on the back nine until the 16th tee. There were plenty of trees, although it seemed that every tree had some group playing towards it. Also, if I were a woman, the trees wouldn't be an option. Restrooms - even port-a-johns - at regular intervals would make a course more woman-friendly (and more man-friendly, too).

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"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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2 of the courses I play have a totally different placement/shot for the red tees. I don't like when the reds are just further up, but in the same line, because the course is designed to play best from the mens tees. Usually a decent woman will be further ahead off of the tee, but with a totally different shot because of the angle of the tee shot. It's not a matter of shaving off yardage as it is playability. Our girls team always struggled at HS golf meets because the tees were just thrown out on the white box. The home team knew how to play the whole, but ours didn't know about the different layups that needed to be used to save your score. I'd like to see setups where the women can play the same shots, but not have to sacrifice distance or position.

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Women do not have as much clubhead speed as men. This is of course why they do not hit the ball as far and why tee position IS important.

However, nobody has mentioned that this also means women generate far less spin on the ball. This can make it harder for the average female golfer to carry the ball as compared to the average male golfer.

Therefore I would say that forced carries are possibly the number one thing that make a course "unfriendly" to women. This can mean carrying it over a ravine to reach the fairway OR carrying it over a bunker or pond to reach the green.

In the case of approaching a green. If the approach is almost all carry they will often have a very difficult time holding the green - even if they hit a great shot. I can see how that would be very frustrating.
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Note: This thread is 5461 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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