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Drop zones across a water hazard?

Dad-2-3

By Dad-2-3,
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Dad-2-3 Dedicated Member

Dad-2-3

On my home course there are a lot of water hazards, but really only 4 that should come into play for the decent player. On each of these 4 holes there are drop zones which are ACROSS the water from where the original shot was played. My playing partner today and I were discussing the use of these drop zones and came to the (possibly narrow minded) conclusion that these drop zones are not necessarily in the spirit of the rules of golf, but meant solely to speed up play. I don't use them and neither does he, although it states on the score card to use them. I quote "Go to drop area (red markers) after hitting in water - 1 stroke penalty." I have even been admonished by a playing partner for not using the drop area and instead taking my penalty and dropping on the "correct" side of the hazard and playing out. I only do this for the purplose of keeping in my mind a correct index and if I am bad enough to stick two in the water, then I deserve the penalty.

What say you? Use the drop areas or no??
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BonoVox Dedicated Member

BonoVox

On my home course there are a lot of water hazards, but really only 4 that should come into play for the decent player. On each of these 4 holes there are drop zones which are ACROSS the water from where the original shot was played. My playing partner today and I were discussing the use of these drop zones and came to the (possibly narrow minded) conclusion that these drop zones are not necessarily in the spirit of the rules of golf, but meant solely to speed up play. I don't use them and neither does he, although it states on the score card to use them. I quote "Go to drop area (red markers) after hitting in water - 1 stroke penalty." I have even been admonished by a playing partner for not using the drop area and instead taking my penalty and dropping on the "correct" side of the hazard and playing out. I only do this for the purplose of keeping in my mind a correct index and if I am bad enough to stick two in the water, then I deserve the penalty.

I wonder if the course rating is taking those drops into consideration?

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alf174 Great Member

alf174

On my home course there are a lot of water hazards, but really only 4 that should come into play for the decent player. On each of these 4 holes there are drop zones which are ACROSS the water from where the original shot was played. My playing partner today and I were discussing the use of these drop zones and came to the (possibly narrow minded) conclusion that these drop zones are not necessarily in the spirit of the rules of golf, but meant solely to speed up play. I don't use them and neither does he, although it states on the score card to use them. I quote "Go to drop area (red markers) after hitting in water - 1 stroke penalty." I have even been admonished by a playing partner for not using the drop area and instead taking my penalty and dropping on the "correct" side of the hazard and playing out. I only do this for the purplose of keeping in my mind a correct index and if I am bad enough to stick two in the water, then I deserve the penalty.

I see most, if not all, drop zones taking the water hazard out of play.

"You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred." Woody Allen
My regular pasture.

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Dad-2-3 Dedicated Member

Dad-2-3

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I wonder if the course rating is taking those drops into consideration?

I don't think so, but that may be. Here's the slope, rating and yardage

68.8/122 6196 yds 71.9/127 6876 yds 75.6/129 7621 yds
I see most, if not all, drop zones taking the water hazard out of play.

Do you use the drop zones?

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BigMikey Established Member

BigMikey

I'm positive it's for pace of play as well. The last thing you want is some 30 handicap player putting a 12 pack of balls in the water while everyone else waits. I also don't think the rules of golf state that the ball must be played such that a player has to shoot over the water again. The 1 stroke penalty covers that.
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Dad-2-3 Dedicated Member

Dad-2-3

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I'm positive it's for pace of play as well. The last thing you want is some 30 handicap player putting a 12 pack of balls in the water while everyone else waits.

I agree that nobody wants to watch or wait for someone to hit 6-10 balls in a hazard, but for a person of some seriousness toward the game I believe these drop zones to be in direct conflict with the rules. Maybe I'm not reading correctly??

26-1. Relief for Ball in Water Hazard It is a question of fact whether a ball that has not been found after having been struck toward a water hazard is in the hazard. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that the ball is in the hazard. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must proceed under Rule 27-1. If a ball is in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in a water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke: a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole. When proceeding under this Rule, the player may lift and clean his ball or substitute a ball. I realize that you can drop on the opposite side of the lateral water hazard, but it must be equidistant to the hole. These drop zones are MUCH closer to the hole than any point of crossing the margin of the water hazard.
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IcemanYVR Dedicated Member

IcemanYVR

local rules usally trump the rulebook, no matter how bizare they may seem.

for casual play it might be a local rule, it could be different in a competition round.

Cheers, Allan

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The Recreational Golfer Great Member

The Recreational Golfer

On page 102 of the current rule book, it says the Committee may establish "special areas on which balls may or must be dropped when it is not feasible or practical to proceed exactly in conformity with . . . Rule 26-1 (Water Hazards and Lateral Water Hazards) . . ."

On page 115, there's a sample local rule for dropping zones which reads:

"If a ball is in or it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the water hazard (specify location), the player may:
(i) proceed under Rule 26; or
(ii) as an additional option, drop a ball, under the penalty of one stroke, in the Dropping Zone."

The introduction to the sample rule says, "Generally, such Dropping Zones should be provided as an additional relief option to those available under the Rule itself, rather than being mandatory."

"Go ahead and drop" sounds like a down-home way of saying, do it if you want to, but you don't have to.
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goblue107501 Great Member

goblue107501

I agree with Iceman. Any local rule can overrule the rulebook. Do they make sense all the time? No. Is this in the 'spirit of the rules'? Not really, but sometimes it is in the best interest of the course to do things a little differently based on a unique situation.

I have seen local rules a lot weirder than this.

I will judge my rounds much more by the quality of my best shots than the acceptability of my worse ones.

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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

On my home course there are a lot of water hazards, but really only 4 that should come into play for the decent player. On each of these 4 holes there are drop zones which are ACROSS the water from where the original shot was played. My playing partner today and I were discussing the use of these drop zones and came to the (possibly narrow minded) conclusion that these drop zones are not necessarily in the spirit of the rules of golf, but meant solely to speed up play. I don't use them and neither does he, although it states on the score card to use them. I quote "Go to drop area (red markers) after hitting in water - 1 stroke penalty." I have even been admonished by a playing partner for not using the drop area and instead taking my penalty and dropping on the "correct" side of the hazard and playing out. I only do this for the purplose of keeping in my mind a correct index and if I am bad enough to stick two in the water, then I deserve the penalty.

What you describe is not the recommended method for establishing dropping zones, but it isn't entirely prohibited either. First, a dropping zone should only be used if there is no other practical option other than rehitting from the previous spot. If the normal options under Rule 26-1 are available, then there is no need under the rules to even have a dropping zone. When possible the dropping zone should not take the hazard completely out of play nor should it play from a spot significantly closer to the hole than where the ball entered the hazard. There are exceptional cases where the committee has no choice but to pass those recommendation in the interest of playability, but such cases are rare on a properly designed golf course.

It sounds like what was done at this course was done in a questionable effort to speed up play, not out of actual necessity. A local rule such as you describe has usually not been submitted for approval to the USGA (a requirement for it to be a true "rule"), but just invented by the course and instituted with the idea the most players won't ever question it. If I played there I would be inclined to play by the Rules of Golf, not by the whim of a questionable "local rule" unless I could see the justification for it.
I agree with Iceman. Any local rule can overrule the rulebook. Do they make sense all the time? No. Is this in the 'spirit of the rules'? Not really, but sometimes it is in the best interest of the course to do things a little differently based on a unique situation.

No any local rule does not overrule the Rules of Golf. See my comment above. There are strict guidelines for what constitutes a legitimate local rule, and this doesn't sound like it remains within those guidelines. At best it is very questionable. Read the decisions on Rule 33-8 for a good list of allowed and disallowed local rules.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Dad-2-3 Dedicated Member

Dad-2-3

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Thanks for all the input. I'm more than likely going to keep doing what I'm doing and that is play by rule 26-1. I guess it really doesn't matter as I can count on one finger the times I've dunked 2 shots in the water this year due to playing it this way. It would be nice to be chipping from the drop zones on the other side of the water though, as these shots are 50-80 yards closer.

I also need to get a current rulebook!
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The Recreational Golfer Great Member

The Recreational Golfer

I agree with Iceman. Any local rule can overrule the rulebook. Do they make sense all the time? No. Is this in the 'spirit of the rules'? Not really, but sometimes it is in the best interest of the course to do things a little differently based on a unique situation.

The Rule Book says, in Appendix I, "As provided in Rule 33-8a, the Committee may make and publish Local Rules for local abnormal conditions

if they are consistent [my emphasis] with the policy established in this Appendix." In other words, local rules must conform with official rules, and may provide alternative procedures only in ways prescribed by the official rules. I'm sure there are local rules that do not do this, but that doesn't give them any legal standing. I would also wonder about the status of scores posted on such courses.
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alf174 Great Member

alf174

I don't think so, but that may be. Here's the slope, rating and yardage

When there is no other option then rehitting from the original spot, yes. Generally, the condition is an expanse of water in front of the tee box.

"You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred." Woody Allen
My regular pasture.

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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

When there is no other option then rehitting from the original spot, yes. Generally, the condition is an expanse of water in front of the tee box.

Generally if that is the case I'd rather re-tee than drop and still be facing that expanse. And dropping on the other side is so against the spirit of the game.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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sean_miller Incredible Member

sean_miller

. . . these drop zones are not necessarily in the spirit of the rules of golf

Maybe the original rules didn't take into account how many ridiculous forced carries there'd be in today's game. Unless it's a relatively small burn, old school golf courses typically had a longer, safer way around the water. That was essentially the same penalty, but you didn't lose a ball in the process.

I get why a lot of drop areas are across the water - but it does seem like kind of the easy way out - sacrafice a water ball and a stroke and you're over the water - cheaty but not cheating. As long as everyone has the same opportunity, meh.

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alf174 Great Member

alf174

Generally if that is the case I'd rather re-tee than drop and still be facing that expanse. And dropping on the other side is so against the spirit of the game.

If I put in the water because I flubbed the shot, yes, I agree. If its at my extreme range (or longer) I'm not going to justify losing yet another ball. Thankfully I only recall using a drop zone once last year and none this year.

"You can live to be a hundred if you give up all the things that make you want to live to be a hundred." Woody Allen
My regular pasture.

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The Recreational Golfer Great Member

The Recreational Golfer

One course I play on has three par 3s with forced carries over a water hazard. The lay of the land is such that if you wanted to exercise option 26-1b, you'd be essentially re-teeing and have to hit same shot you just flubbed. Each hole has a drop zone that is much closer, and on one of them, the drop zone is on the other side of the hazard, (a huge ravine), because there's no other place to put it .
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