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Are commentators trying to throw us off?


TXjammer
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  1. 1. Do you think PGA commentators stretch the truth a bit?

    • Yes
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    • No
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    • Never really thought about it.
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    • Who cares?
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I could just be me, but being that I'm really interested in the abilities of the pros, I tend to watchdog every tidbit of info I can get on what club each player used for what shot...how far he was TRYING to hit it, and how far he ACTUALLY hit it, taking into consideration each time if it was from a good/bad lie, out of the rough, wind conditions....I just want to know what these guys can do!

However, while doing so I think these commentators try sometimes to make things sound more spectacular than they really are. For example, one tournament, player after player hit their drive to 180 yds from the center of the green.  Most of them hit 5 and 6 irons, one young guy hit a 7 iron, but came up about 10yds short...they blamed it on the wind.  The next tournament I watch has a commentator with a british accent, which for every shot about the same 180yd distance , he would say "Bout 180 to the flag Jim, prolly nothing more than a little pitching wedge"   !!!!!!  A pitching wedge???  Really?

Another instance they kept saying how drive after drive on one particular hole was easily over 300 yds...so I found the course on Google Earth and measured in yds from tee to their drive....270-290yds.  ???? (Scottsdale, Az Waste Mngmt Open) Only a small handful reached over 300 yds.  (I know, I need a life!) : )

Look, I know these guys are very good...but I don't need to be bluffed and blind-sided to be convinced.  What do y'all think?

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Originally Posted by TXjammer

I could just be me, but being that I'm really interested in the abilities of the pros, I tend to watchdog every tidbit of info I can get on what club each player used for what shot...how far he was TRYING to hit it, and how far he ACTUALLY hit it, taking into consideration each time if it was from a good/bad lie, out of the rough, wind conditions....I just want to know what these guys can do!

However, while doing so I think these commentators try sometimes to make things sound more spectacular than they really are. For example, one tournament, player after player hit their drive to 180 yds from the center of the green.  Most of them hit 5 and 6 irons, one young guy hit a 7 iron, but came up about 10yds short...they blamed it on the wind.  The next tournament I watch has a commentator with a british accent, which for every shot about the same 180yd distance, he would say "Bout 180 to the flag Jim, prolly nothing more than a little pitching wedge"   !!!!!!  A pitching wedge???  Really?

Another instance they kept saying how drive after drive on one particular hole was easily over 300 yds...so I found the course on Google Earth and measured in yds from tee to their drive....270-290yds.  ???? (Scottsdale, Az Waste Mngmt Open) Only a small handful reached over 300 yds.  (I know, I need a life!) : )

Look, I know these guys are very good...but I don't need to be bluffed and blind-sided to be convinced.  What do y'all think?



I doubt a commentator actually said, "prolly". The guys this weekend were playing at sea level in the wind with higher humidity. The guys in Scottsdale were playing at a couple thousand feet in the cold. Did you factor all that in as well?

Mizuno MP600 driver, Cleveland '09 Launcher 3-wood, Callaway FTiz 18 degree hybrid, Cleveland TA1 3-9, Scratch SS8620 47, 53, 58, Cleveland Classic 2 mid-mallet, Bridgestone B330S, Sun Mountain four5.

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Originally Posted by sean_miller

I doubt a commentator actually said, "prolly". The guys this weekend were playing at sea level in the wind with higher humidity. The guys in Scottsdale were playing at a couple thousand feet in the cold. Did you factor all that in as well?


http://www.livestrong.com/article/359688-how-to-calculate-golf-yardages-at-altitude/  ...yes, i did  ...and he DID say PROLLY!

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On their irons pros can if they wish deloft them which can add considerable distance.  In addition club selection is flashed by the caddie to the announcer. I suspect they are not always truthful.  TV presenters fail to mention wind, downhill, etc.  If I went by GPS the last time I played in AZ one of my drives went 270.  I had cut the corner with a slight helping wind, firm fairway.  At my home course  the same drive would have been 235 or less. Perhaps impressing the viewers is seen as good marketing?

1W Cleveland LauncherComp 10.5, 3W Touredge Exotics 15 deg.,FY Wilson 19.5 degree
4 and 5H, 6I-GW Callaway Razr, SW, LW Cleveland Cg-14, Putter Taylor Made Suzuka, Ball, Srixon XV Yellow

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That's what I think.  It just sounds more impressive.  I mean face it, we all love this game which is why we talk on here in between playing and watching it on TV.  But to the rest of the population, it's not very exciting.  Guess every little bit helps.

That's true though about the delofting.

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the pros dont just deloft the club to gain distance from shot to shot...they compress the ball correctly on every shot, they dont just deloft the club for and extra ten or twenty yards.

now they can get extra distance whenever they want because they arent swinging 100 percent on their normal shots.  if they want the extra yardage with the same club they just swing a little harder...which is still probably not as hard as a lot of amateurs swing.

i remember camilo talking on playing lessons with the pros that the players get shorter when they are on tour because they need the extra control on the tougher courses and all.

i dont think there is a conspiracy or anything... i just think that the analysts feel the pressure to say something too often...and they are ex pros so they are right no matter what it actually is that they said.  that means that there is a lot of unimportant and wrong information given by the analyst ala Miller, Faldo.

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Also some of these guys have jacked up lofts on their irons (taylormade?) so their 8 iron is really a 7, then they might deloft it, and that's how you have 8 irons going 180+.
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The yardages are paced off by a network guy who walks with each group (not the announcer, but another guy).  You can sometimes see them pacing to each ball  before the players get there.  The caddies will then signal to them what club the player uses or, in the case of par 3s where he can check out each bag, he sees for himself what club is used.  Sure, caddies could give the wrong club info, but what purpose would it serve?

The announcers don't make up the yardages and the clubs used.

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i dont know how their clubs are all bent, but if they are swinging their drivers 115+  with good form...then they will have the ability to hit their irons really far if they want to.

my driver swing as far as i know is around 100 mph.  i hit my 40 degree 8 iron 160 yards...which is pretty close to what a lot of pros hit...but they are swinging their irons with less effort than i am...  if they want to hit their 8 iron 170 or 180, im sure a lot of them can, but it is more important to hit your irons close to the pin than far.  but this is very general, all players do some things different.

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1. Many of these guys have amazing distance control and can hit an iron a range of "prolly" 20-30 yards ie hit a 5-6 iron 175-205 yards and control it by how they swing. Me- I do well to stay within 10-15 yds or so for a full standard swing. It is said that in his day, Johnny Miller could control his middle and short irons to within  a couple of yards.

2. Watch the results however; they still sometimes come up short or go long.

3. There are multiple yardages in play-the stated length of the hole vs the yardage it is actually playing, the distance to the front, the distance to the center, and the distance to the actual pin placement. this  can account for 2-3 clubs on some courses.  The firmness of the greens, wind, firmness of fairways etc.

Don

In the bag:

Driver: PING 410 Plus 9 degrees, Alta CB55 S  Fairway: Callaway Rogue 3W PX Even Flow Blue 6.0; Hybrid: Titleist 818H1 21* PX Even Flow Blue 6.0;  Irons: Titleist 718 AP1 5-W2(53*) Shafts- TT AMT Red S300 ; Wedges Vokey SM8 56-10D Putter: Scotty Cameron 2016 Newport 2.5  Ball: Titleist AVX or 2021 ProV1

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And like Miller or not, I think he would be one to be a stickler for stating the correct yardage when calling these shots if he has it available.

Don

In the bag:

Driver: PING 410 Plus 9 degrees, Alta CB55 S  Fairway: Callaway Rogue 3W PX Even Flow Blue 6.0; Hybrid: Titleist 818H1 21* PX Even Flow Blue 6.0;  Irons: Titleist 718 AP1 5-W2(53*) Shafts- TT AMT Red S300 ; Wedges Vokey SM8 56-10D Putter: Scotty Cameron 2016 Newport 2.5  Ball: Titleist AVX or 2021 ProV1

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Originally Posted by Clambake

Trackman has actual data of the pros' distances and in one of their newsletters addresses the question:   http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter6.pdf     Check out the table of distances and their thoughts.



This is some really good info right here.  Worth checking out.

Don't get me wrong, by writing this thread I wasn't trying to identify a conspiracy.  But as said in the prior comments, a lot of inaccurate information does get slung around. The frustrating part is, it's almost impossible to know why, or if, a player could hit a certain club a certain yardage being there are so many variables to consider.  Guess I'm going to have to just quit trying to figure it out and play my game.  It's all just very interesting to me. I'll just have to get on tour and find out for myself!  LOL

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No conspiracy.  What is amazing is the ability that the pros have to hit the same club some 40-50 yards shorter or longer depending on their swing.  Personally, I find myself in situations where I am between yardages all the time.  I then have to hit a easy shot or really amp up on one to get the correct yardage.  That method doesn't often yield quality results.  But the pros have practices sooo much with each club that they really have an excellent ideal how far a shot will go with 80% - 100% swing power.  That always amazes me.

What's in my bag:
Driver: taylormade.gifBurner 09 Stiff 9.5*
Fairway Woods: adams.gifRPM Low Profile 3 & 5
Irons: mizuno.gifMP 57 - 3-PW Project X 5.5
Wedges: wilson.gifREG. 588 54* &cleveland.gif 60*Putter: ping.gifAnserBall: titleist.gifProV1x Home Course: Forest Ridge Golf Club

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Originally Posted by Harmonious

The yardages are paced off by a network guy who walks with each group (not the announcer, but another guy).  You can sometimes see them pacing to each ball  before the players get there.  The caddies will then signal to them what club the player uses or, in the case of par 3s where he can check out each bag, he sees for himself what club is used.  Sure, caddies could give the wrong club info, but what purpose would it serve?

The announcers don't make up the yardages and the clubs used.


The yardages aren't paced off... that would be slow and inaccurate.  Most groups don't even have a "network guy".  The distances are measured by laser with the Shotlink system at every PGA Tour tournament.  That's how they give the exact distance on every shot, even right down to the foot on putts.

When I was marshaling at the International, I always wanted to get on the laser team, because they got to sit down in the shade all day while the marshals had to stand out in the hot sun.  The PGA Tour canceled the tournament the same year I applied for the transfer.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

The yardages aren't paced off... that would be slow and inaccurate.  Most groups don't even have a "network guy".  The distances are measured by laser with the Shotlink system at every PGA Tour tournament.  That's how they give the exact distance on every shot, even right down to the foot on putts.

When I was marshaling at the International, I always wanted to get on the laser team, because they got to sit down in the shade all day while the marshals had to stand out in the hot sun.  The PGA Tour canceled the tournament the same year I applied for the transfer.

You didn't understand what I was saying.  For the TV broadcast, the network has a guy walk with each group that they figure will be shown on TV.  On par 3's he looks in the bag of each player and reports back to the network truck by radio.  On par 4's and 5's he paces the distances to the green, using yardage markers and daily pin sheets to capture each player's distance to the pin.  The caddy will usually give him the club used for the shot.  He then notifies club selections to the network truck. The reason I know this stuff is that I had a chance to talk with one of those guys during a rain delay in New Orleans.  We were stuck in a tent for the delay and I asked him what he did, and he told me exactly what I posted.  After the delay, I followed his group for awhile and saw how he did it, saw the caddies' signals to him, etc.

This is completely different than the Shotlink info, which is used for gathering statistics.  Not saying the networks don't use that as well.

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Originally Posted by Harmonious

You didn't understand what I was saying.  For the TV broadcast, the network has a guy walk with each group that they figure will be shown on TV.  On par 3's he looks in the bag of each player and reports back to the network truck by radio.  On par 4's and 5's he paces the distances to the green, using yardage markers and daily pin sheets to capture each player's distance to the pin.  The caddy will usually give him the club used for the shot.  He then notifies club selections to the network truck. The reason I know this stuff is that I had a chance to talk with one of those guys during a rain delay in New Orleans.  We were stuck in a tent for the delay and I asked him what he did, and he told me exactly what I posted.  After the delay, I followed his group for awhile and saw how he did it, saw the caddies' signals to him, etc.

This is completely different than the Shotlink info, which is used for gathering statistics.  Not saying the networks don't use that as well.


I know that they get the club selection from the caddie.  I worked the tournament as a hole marshal for 4 years.  But I never saw David Feherty pace off a single step.  He didn't have to because he gets the Shotlink data from the CBS production truck through his headset before he ever gets to the area where the ball lies.  He watches for the sign from the caddie as to club selection, but that's about it.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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