Range Experts

**GreensDruid** · April 1, 2007

We up here in northern New England get a slower start than others. But I want to report that I hit a bucket of balls for the first time since late November. Some good, some bad but overall a creditable start.

I'm happy just to be out swinging a club. But I have to vent just a little. I was sandwiched between two range experts - you know the type - the guys with the worst swings but who are more than free with advice. It wasn't long before one latched onto me. I was sending my sand wedge shots high and left. The range expert tells me that my backswing is too slow and I should speed things up a bit. I play along with him - what the hell else are you going to do - leave my tempo the same, open my stance, align my shoulders and voila, a straight shot. The range expert was elated - he fixed my problem.

His grandson Joey was also impressed. "Gee Grandpa, you should be a teacher!"

I am a teacher, he said.

Maybe it is time for that private club membership . . .

**Shindig** · April 1, 2007

We up here in northern New England get a slower start than others. But I want to report that I hit a bucket of balls for the first time since late November. Some good, some bad but overall a creditable start.

I'm reminded of Bill Engvall talking about these guys. "I can tell you what you're doing wrong" "Yeah, playing next to you." Back to me: I like to ask, "What's your handicap?" and "Are you a PGA pro?" (if they report something incredibly low). I'd substitute "LPGA" for "PGA" if I was receiving unsolicited advice from a woman, but it's always men offering such advice. It's convenient that I do most of my range practice at the same course where my teacher teaches. If I have a small problem, I can run to him about it, and if it's a big problem, I can schedule a lesson. As for private club, maybe we should try to find out if private clubs have these people too.

**Mulligan26** · April 1, 2007

I find that people are really hostile to getting advice from a teenager, I'm sixteen and aspiring teaching pro. So when people give me shit about giving them advice, I just tell them to go talk to my teacher and ask him how I am at diagnosing swing faults. Another reason I believe that I get so much hostility is that I'm better than 99% of the guys I give advice to, that has to piss them off. On that note, I don't give too much unsolicited advice anymore.

**Shindig** · April 1, 2007

I find that people are really hostile to getting advice from a teenager, I'm sixteen and aspiring teaching pro. So when people give me shit about giving them advice, I just tell them to go talk to my teacher and ask him how I am at diagnosing swing faults. Another reason I believe that I get so much hostility is that I'm better than 99% of the guys I give advice to, that has to piss them off. On that note, I don't give too much unsolicited advice anymore.

The not giving unsolicited advice is probably a good idea. I'm a male and I don't understand the hostility towards woman teachers. I started taking classes from an LPGA Pro, group classes at my school. When I needed more individual attention and I couldn't go to her due to summer, I ended up going to a PGA Pro.

**Mulligan26** · April 2, 2007

I think its because of ego.

**jorgesgolf** · April 2, 2007

I find that people are really hostile to getting advice from a teenager, I'm sixteen and aspiring teaching pro. So when people give me shit about giving them advice, I just tell them to go talk to my teacher and ask him how I am at diagnosing swing faults. Another reason I believe that I get so much hostility is that I'm better than 99% of the guys I give advice to, that has to piss them off. On that note, I don't give too much unsolicited advice anymore.

I'd have two main problems with getting advice from a teenager: 1) As a teenager, I just doubt that they have the experience or education required to accurately diagnose swing faults. There is a reason why PGA professionals attend school and for that reason - I'll stick with them. 2) As a 10 handicap? I'll buy into the "those that can't do - teach" philosophy, but at least let them be a single digit handicap... Jorgesgolf

**GreensDruid** · April 2, 2007

I think most people mean well when they give advice. So I am not real prickly about it - I just play along and hope they'll find someone else to advise. But I usually do better working things out on my own. When I get stuck, I visit a certain golf pro who I trust, and he can usually work things out.

Last year I was doing some range work at a golf course near work and a real live PGA pro came up and starting giving me advice, unsolicited. Apparently he was just let go from his previous job (due to a closure, not because of anything he did wrong). He was just trying to drum up business, gave me about 3 tips and left me with his business card. I'm sure this guy knew what he was doing and although I was cordial to him I couldn't help being annoyed and I ended up avoiding the range whenever he was around.

Sometimes you just like working things out on your own . . .

**Mulligan26** · April 2, 2007

I'd have two main problems with getting advice from a teenager:

Ill be a single digit by the end of the summer, guranteed

**Fourputt** · April 2, 2007

Ill be a single digit by the end of the summer, guranteed

Be that as it may, you still haven't been taught how to teach. There is both and art and a science to good teaching, regardless of the subject, and most people have to learn how to do it. Until you have the training and credentials, I'd advise you keep your own counsel unless you are asked for assistance.

In spite of what I imagine are numerous swing faults, I still know my swing better after 30 years of living with it than you possibly could after seeing me hit a few balls. If you think you are qualified, read any of Harvey Penick's books ("The Little Red Book" is great place to start), and then tell us if you think you are ready to teach. If so, great... the golfing world could really use a new Harvey Penick.

**chingali** · April 2, 2007

I'm lucky, I hit it better than practically anyone I ever see on the range so nobody ever gives me advice. What does annoy the hell out of me though is when people stand behind me and watch, sometimes you get half a dozen or so of them and you cop all of the "have you ever considered turning pro?" type questions, it is extremely annoying. If I take out the driver you get all of the comments about hitting it over the back fence, that one was 330 yards and how long you are in general. I know I hit it about 265-275 if I catch it solid but they swear it's going 300+, I guess it sort of accounts for all of the people who post on forums saying how they hit it 300+!

With advice, I never offer it even though I actually am qualified to give it. Part of going through the trainee pro scheme in Australia is the teaching unit spread over 3 years and I passed each year, two of the years I came top in the state but I just don't like giving advice because you know three swings later it's going to be ignored/disregarded for a multitude of reasons. The other reason I don't give advice is that there is never really a quick fix, anything that I recommended would be as part of an ongoing plan to build something resembling a decent golf swing and giving small snippets of advice to random people would be more detrimental than helpful.

**allin** · April 2, 2007

It is relatively easy to identify swing faults. I can easily identify faults in golfers both more skilled and more talented than my self. (and probably more knowledgeable) A good teacher chooses instruction appropriate to the students physical talents and goals. As part of the process it is normal to ignore certain faults while correcting others. This is the real issue even though you are right you may be distracting someone from addressing more pressing issues. Maybe they are working on balance and tempo and you are concerned with a swing positon issue etc.

**Mulligan26** · April 2, 2007

http://www.golfcollege.edu/

^where I'm attending school after highschool, out in Temecula, CA.

**MountainHip** · April 2, 2007

You can't help someone, who doesn't want it.
I don't want help. I like doing things on my own.
I will sign up for a lesson or whatever if I choose.
Giving someone advice/quick fix does not last, nor help someone.

NJDuffer · April 2, 2007

I find that people are really hostile to getting advice from a teenager, I'm sixteen and aspiring teaching pro. So when people give me shit about giving them advice, I just tell them to go talk to my teacher and ask him how I am at diagnosing swing faults. Another reason I believe that I get so much hostility is that I'm better than 99% of the guys I give advice to, that has to piss them off. On that note, I don't give too much unsolicited advice anymore.

Wow...have you ever thought that your approach is wrong. A few comments:

1) As a 10 handicap are you really so good that you should be giving lessons. 2) Some people just do not want unsolicited advice. 3) You think the hostility comes from the fact that you are better than 99% of the guys. One thing to think about is that the guys you offer advice to have no idea how you play, you just strolled up to them with a tip. IMO, you seem pretty self-centered. Most people who want help will seek it out and range tips are pretty meaningless unless someone works on the change. People react to you the way they do because they did not want help from anyone regardless of age.

**Mulligan26** · April 2, 2007

I'm definatly a self-centered a**, thank you for pointing that out. Infact you've really enlightened me and now I feel that I must change my ways. A two second tip is meant as friendly advice, I never give someone a half-hour lesson but merely a "How about pulling with your left arm instead of right". This is the internet and I'm never one to argue over cyberspace but I think you need to layoff big time buddy.

**NM Golf** · April 3, 2007

Since I am a low handicapper I rarely get some joker giving me advice. The few times I have had it happen I have simply told them I have a homemade swing, it works for me , and I'm not changing it now. Plus I have a policy to never take swing advice from someone I can beat. The good thing is the course where I work has a private practice area for lessons and employees so I can avoid the 10 handicapper who regurgitates the lessons he read in last month's Golf Digest.
.
On that note though there is a high school coach whose team practices at my course, who is the absolute worst at this. He is a decent player (7 handicap I think) but the minute one of his kids hits a shot off line there he is breaking down their swing and changing things. The other day I watched him get a kid so screwed up, he could barely take the club back when he was finished. Its hilarious listening to him. Personally I believe high school coaches should leave the swing changes to the professionals and concentrate more on teaching course managment. Of course most of the coaches around here aren't even qualified to do that.

**MPS67** · April 3, 2007

I'm definatly a self-centered a**, thank you for pointing that out. Infact you've really enlightened me and now I feel that I must change my ways. A two second tip is meant as friendly advice, I never give someone a half-hour lesson but merely a "How about pulling with your left arm instead of right". This is the internet and I'm never one to argue over cyberspace but I think you need to layoff big time buddy.

Aren't there many different swing styles and circumstances? For example, one plane v. two plane; punch shot, full shot, wedge shot and so on? How can anyone be sure what part of the game on which a practice golfer is working unless you've had dialog with that person? I agree with others here that unless asked, move along and mind your own business.

I'm a high handicapper and have been working with a PGA instructor. He has me working on generating my full swing by way of upper leg & hip rotation (the O-factor) and letting the arms follow through on their own with little, if any, pull action from them. With all due respect and because of my curiosity, when would a golfer want to pull with their left arm? Would this occur in an swing controlled by the arms v. the legs, hips, and shoulders? Thanks

**allin** · April 3, 2007

I'm a high handicapper and have been working with a PGA instructor. He has me working on generating my full swing by way of upper leg & hip rotation (the O-factor) and letting the arms follow through on their own with little, if any, pull action from them. With all due respect and because of my curiosity, when would a golfer want to pull with their left arm? Would this occur in an swing controlled by the arms v. the legs, hips, and shoulders?

People who swing with a more upright plane, sometimes called two plane, often pull the club aggressively through the ball with their arms. Their swings rely more on arc and this hammer like release to create power. I would say that their whole left side leads their swings,not just the arms.

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