Specific questions about slow play.

I've noticed that slow play gets a lot of discussion on here, and not all of it civil (See iWalk18's thread on being a "fan" of slow play).

Seeing as how I'm brand new to playing, I was wondering what is the specific etiquette on hitting when there is a group in front of you as to not slow everybody else down.

For reference, 99% of the time I play alone or with one other friend and we always walk. I've only once been put in a group and that was at a busy muni in Chicago. This probably has to do more with me taking up golf in October than anything else, and I expect the crowds to be a lot bigger come April and May when the (comparatively) sane people come out from their Winter hibernation.

So, specifically....

on par 3s, do I wait for the group to clear off the green and be completely out of range? I figure this one's a no-brainer (yes, wait so you don't embed a Titleist into somebody's skull), but you never know.

When there are older (or slower-moving) people ahead of me, how long should I wait before I shoot after them? I find that when there's a group of older guys ahead of me, they can go forward after hitting, I can hit and by the time I get to my ball, they still haven't started their next shot. I figure at this point I can ask to play through, but I want to err on the side of caution and not seem uncourteous. Sometimes in this situation length comes into play as well.... I don't want to hit a 250-yard drive towards a group that only got 190 off the tee and even after hitting their second will still be in range for a while. (this actually happened to me in Chicago and thankfully the group ahead of us was more impressed than angry, and trust me, nobody was more surprised than I was...)

The four hour standard -- does that apply to only to foursomes? Is the expectation that solo walkers finish up in less time? It's not been a problem so far, even playing with a reaaaallllly poorly-playing friend and going on expeditions looking for his lost balls, the longest it's ever taken me to finish 18 was about 3 hours.

Luckily every time I've been alone and behind a really slow group the course has been empty enough that I can skip ahead and come back to finish up, but once the "season" starts around here I expect a lot more gridlock.

Thanks!

Brand new at golf, playing off 14.9 and driving the ball 250. Nice.

For me i hold off until they're out of range whether it's a par 3 or a par 5; hittng into a group is just wrong. If they're holding you up I'd just keep making it clear you'd like to play through (as long as there's space ahead of them of course)

Don't be surprised if you get idiots like I had last Sunday where a fourball of women duffers taking EIGHT tee shots due to bad drives refused to let us past even though the were using drivers to hit the ball 150 tops and STILL hittng it O.B. somehow. Pro shop were no use at all when I went in to ask at the turn and just said "there's not much we can do" to keep the peace.

Not sure how there can be a "standard" across all courses when each course will have a different length, difficulty and pace. I'd ask at the course pro shop to see how long it should take to reach the turn. Alternatively it may have signs like our course letting you know on the 1st and 11th tee how long you should have taken to that point.

I prefer to err on the side of caution.  I can't tell exactly how far away someone is on the fairway ahead of me (rangefinder would come in handy there) so I wait until I am absolutely sure that I cannot reach them.  But I am out in the country where the courses are a lot less crowded so no one is breathing down my neck so I can wait longer and not piss people off.

I not only have to worry about the people in front of me but also on the sides.  Sometimes I hit a shot that looks like Darth Vader spinning off into space at the end of Star Wars, so I also have to be aware of people on other tees or fairways.

When it comes to slower people ahead, I've found that they will usually finish out the hole and then wait on the next tee to let me play through.  Again, it depends on how crowded the course is.  If there are people ahead of them as well it doesn't make much sense to let people play through.  I keep seeing people post about marshalls or something on some courses that monitor the pace of play.  I've never seen that where I play so I guess I'm lucky, I don't even have to reserve a tee time, just show up and start.

ive only seen this at one golf course, and im a huge fan of it- they have clocks at every tee box, and i dont know how the clocks are set but everytime you get to the next teebox, you can see how far ahead or behind pace you are by how close the clock says to your teetime.  For instance, your tee time is one o clock- each clock on the next teebox will say one o clock if you get there on time, before one if you finished the hole quick, and after one if you are slacking.

I tend to play quite a bit by myself as there are not many that will walk our golf course. I am always cautious but I also know my game well so I know even on the best of hits what I can hit so once they are a little beyond what I could do when I really catch it well then I go. We have a few holes with blind spots and it can be frustrating as I am very careful. Our #7 is narrow and gently slopes downhill but around the 200 yard mark it drops quick and if someone is at the base, even in a golf cart you can not see anything, no matter what you do on the tee box in moving around and jumping. This past year I had no idea people were even in front of me so I went ahead and teed off and hit it right over the heads above 60 yards past where they were. Started coming down and realized what happened, felt like cram but they understood. Really hate doing that but I am always overly cautious as I don't want to take any chances.

If a foursome is on a 4 hour 15 minute pace or less, I dont feel that anyone has the "right" to play thru.  With that said, if such foursome invites you to play thru, that would be polite on their part.  Some groups will and some wont, but in any event, dont expect the "marshall" or pro shop to intervene.

If a course wont enforce their slow play rules, and most do have them, the best solution is just to find a different course.

My course is classed as an "executive" course at 5111 yards off the yellows. If I was stuck behind a fourball who said "We're fine if we finish under 4 hours and 15 minutes" I'd laugh at them because that's WAY too long for such a short course. That was the point I made earlier about different courses with different difficulties and therefore different play times.

I agree that nobody has the "right" to play through because ultimately the group in front tee'd off first but it's common courtesy to wave a twoball or single through if you're blatantly holding them up, e.g. the women duffers from last Sunday who were hitting 2x the par for each hole EACH. 8 shots per player is 32 shots per hole on the par 4's and not once was there any inclination to wave us through.

Well, I do think a slower group should allow a faster group to play through if the slower group has lost position on the course.  It is a clear expectation under the etiquette section in the rules of golf.   http://www.usga.org/etiquette/tips/Golf-Etiquette-101/

We don't really have this problem at my home course as most people show proper etiquette.  If they don't they will be asked by staff to comply.

you already have the answer to the first question.

I see you're already indoctrinated to to think older golfer equals slower golfer.  But to the question, regardless of the age or gender of the foursome in front of  you should wait util they are clear before hitting for the same reason you gave in answering the first question. You might also try being polite when you ask if you can play through.  This is especially true if the golfers are considerably older than you.  After all if not for your elders' efforts & sacrifices you might be speaking something other than English and living in a country where you couldn't afford or be allowed to play golf.  So give the old folks their due, they deserve it even if they are a little cranky at times.

Four hours is the average time for a foursome to play a non-executive course.  But as you have learned some are faster and some are slower.  But IMO if people are playing "ready golf" it should not take four hours to play most courses under normal circumstances.  Usually having fewer than four doesn't help as courses are full.  But otherwise having less than a foursome should result in shorter times playing 18.  But there are times when weather. course difficulty, or other circumstances outside the golfers' control might increase (or might decrease) playing time.  So be patient and considerate is the key.  If everyone did that there would not be any slow play.

I tend to keep the course phone number in my cell phone, if it isn't the first group off causing a major backlog, if its a couple groups ahead, i usually give them 9 holes before i make a call. Just to get the ranger out there to push them. One time i found this guy one guy, had like 5 golf balls around the green. He was backing up my foursome. A onesome backing up a foursome, thats insane. That and i had a bad hole before, pushed me over the edge, i called the clubhouse. Then i yelled from the fairway at the guy. I rarely do that. I never try to yell on a golf course period, because i will be interrupting other people i can not see. Usually i try to find a time, like the next tee box to let them know they are playing to slow. But good golf courses have good rangers to keep things on track, if they do there job. My long standard is 15 minutes per hole, thats 4.5 hours..

the first step is knowing your distances.    Say on a par 5, if you can positively determine the group ahead of you is 300 yards down (I use a lazer to be sure) ... then I'm confortable with teeing off as I know 240 is my max distance.

I used the word "older" because I was referring to a specific group of guys that I played behind once. I guess I should have made this more clear. All 4 of them were walking and it was more of a slow-walking problem than a slow-playing problem. Allow me to demonstrate my pedantry by sharing this little diagram I created.

Have a look at this wonderful par 5 hole on a beautiful sunny day. I'm on the tee box waiting for the group of slower gents to hit their second shot. As you can see, they're probably 20-30 yards inside my range (grey area). After they hit their second shot it takes them, without exaggeration, a good 3-4 minutes to get safely out of range. On my second shot, you can see that the problem compounds itself as my second shot (when struck properly) goes significantly farther than theirs, and that's only AFTER I've walked to my second shot and waited for them to walk to theirs, hit it and walk to their third. The second grey area shows the danger zone while I'm waiting to hit my second shot and they're walking away from their third.

As you can see, it's not that I'm BETTER than them, we both hit the green in 3, but significantly faster. By the time I wait for them to get out of the way and I hit the green and three-putt it, they're already on the next tee box and one of them has already teed off. The question is this: when do I ask to play through? I'm never within range to ask them without yelling except on the next tee. If one of them has already teed off, can I still ask to play through? I honestly don't know the finer points of etiquette that you can only pick up from experience.

Thanks for the help.

I disagree.  Even if they are playing at a 4:15 pace, if there is space ahead of them and a faster group behind them they should let them play through.  It is not about "rights" it is about courtesy.

Certainly. The rest of them would just wait to tee off until you were through.

I'm with you.....  It doesn't matter how fast they are playing if there is an empty hole in front of them. If you have an early tee time at my course and you're playing a 4:15 pace, you'll likely get stampeded past by the regulars....LOL

To the OP, the usual etiquette is to wait until the people in front of you are out of range.

On par 3, you should not hit/start setting up until everyone has cleared the back of the green. If they left bags or carts in front of the green (bad form), you still need to wait. If you tend to hit through the green, wait until they are out of sight/range. Of course on a long par 3 where you cannot reach the green, you can hit while they are on the green.

On longer holes, you want to wait until they are beyond where you typically hit. If you are erratic on distance, use your max distance. If you are in a foursome, you can/should have the shorter hitters hit first, rather than wait on honors for the longest hitter.

Etiquette says if you accidentally hit into the group in front, yell fore and apologize when you get close again. It will happen.

To play through, generally you need to get to the next tee before the party in front finishes teeing off. On many courses, the distance between holes make this pretty hard especially if you are walking. Unless there is a whole open hole, most people do not want you to pass.

Executive courses one should play 9 holes in about 1 hour when empty (my experience with 7AM starts). It slows considerably when full to more like 2 hours. These courses are considered training/practice areas. People are teaching others. People are attempting to learn to play. Generally, their ability is lower, etc. Some hit multiple balls per shot and putt and re-putt. Personally, if no one is behind me (in the tee box), I will hit additional balls and practice more on the greens.

Courses are designed to be played in 4-4:15.  If the distance between holes is long -- it may take longer. Most munis play in the 4:30-5 hour range.

There is an interesting article on this http://www.popeofslope.com/paceofplay/

The high points are:

• It takes about an hour to play 18
• the rest of the time is "logistic positioning" or getting to the next shot with the right equipment
• Restricting carts to the paths adds 30 minutes to round time
• Tee times less than 10 minutes apart and you will have backups.
• Another key point: Don't let players tee off on the first hole as soon as the golfers in the fairway hit their second shots. On a par 4, make them wait until the group ahead reaches the green. You will be amazed at how much the pace on the course will improve.

Your goal as a golfer is be ready to hit. Move to your ball quickly. Determine your distance and club selection quickly. Be ready to play when it is your turn.

Good luck.

In my experience, beginners are always 'wrongly' looking over their shoulder to see what is behind them when their full attention should be on what is in front of them.  What I try to do is explain that it doesn't matter who is following us.  So long as we are keeping pace with the group in front of us, they have nothing to worry about.....they're doing fine.   Even if their pace is 4hrs and they still fall behind, they are in the wrong and need to pick it up.  If they have an early tee time and cant keep up with a brisk early morning pace, they shouldn't be on the course early.

I'll even take it one step further.  lets say they fall behind and the group behind them is falling even further behind.  A typical beginner will rationalize they are doing OK because nobody is pushing them from behind.   WRONG....they are still part of the problem, only now there are 2 offending groups!!  they need to keep up and leave it to the marshals to speed up the idiots behind them.  This is exactly how 5hr+ rounds happen.

my 2 cents..