Professional club fitting for beginners?

I have recently got fitted professionally for my next set of clubs. In that fitting I learned allot about what they can all adjust for an individual person.  The more I delve into theories, and the science of the golf swing, ball flight and such the more interesting I find the sport. It also helps me to understand why certain swing adjustments produce certain outcomes. This is why I am a strong supporter of every golfer that is planning to continue golf getting a proper club fitting.

I think a major misconception of clubfitting is that it is reserved for professional golfers and that it is expensive. And a fitting can cost approx $300 for a full fitting from what I have seen from professional club makers. As well as often the fitting is free if you purchase a set of clubs. Anyway I don't want to go into every little aspect of my opinion because that would take a long time.

I would love to hear peoples opinions about clubfitting for all skill levels of golfers.

I believe that once a person can produce a relatively consistent swing they are ready.

Mitch

Ya - but how long is that supposed to take?  I've been golfing for over 20 years without a consistent swing!

In my opinion, a golfer should get fit for clubs probably by thier second set.  Thier first set will most likely be something inexpensive, used, hand-me-down, etc but once they decided they are actually going to continue playing they should get fit.

It's not really as exotic as it sounds . .I, for example, am 6' 3" so clubs that are fit for my height work much better for me.  It's not always about fancy shafts and ball flight, etc, etc.

I just starting playing golf in January and my first set is a used set that I got at a pawn shop. I feel that when I am ready for another set of clubs, I would definiately go for a proper fitting. But that will probably not be for a long time.

I don't think you completely understand what I mean by a consistent swing as I didn't really explain it clearly.

I did not mean that every single swing is identical or that you always hit a perfect shot. What I meant by a consistant swing is that you have developed a swing that will generally be similar from the one before as well as the one after. You follow the same set up and back swing as well as follow through.  I do not expect that a person should need to perfect the aspects before a club fitting or I would not have got one, or would I ever be able to if I followed that sort of standard.

As far as I am concerned if a person thinks they may be interested in golf they should rent or borrow clubs for a couple sessions at the driving range, lessons or even a couple rounds. Whichever this person decides.  Then once they look at buying clubs they can consider a fitting. Even if they only get the shafts adjusted for flex and length it would make a drastic difference than just buying a standard set of clubs off the shelf that may or may not be proper for that individual.

In the end I think we are making the same general point, but I could have presented my information with a bit more detail.

Mitch G

I have never been fit for clubs. I am on my third set. I would be interested to see what difference it would make for me.

Maybe it will be something I can look into this season. I seem to be hitting it O.K for how long I've been playing ( 3 years ). Maybe it'll fix my block that comes in - but I doubt it.

TBH - I don't wanna go get fit and have to fork out hundreds of dollars on new shafts if I need them.

I believe that beginners should get a STATIC fitting. That is a fitting based on body sized and measurements -- not based on swinging the club. As a beginner, you are working toward a swing. This swing is not your current swing. If you fit your clubs to your current swing, as you improve your swing, your clubs may or may not fit anymore. Because we want the ball to do as we desire, you will develop compensations in your swing to compensate for clubs that no longer fit.

As static fitting will look at your height, perhaps arm length, distance from finger tips to the ground, and will account for the swing you are trying to learn.

If you clubs to not fit your body, you will never learn a proper swing because you will learn to make the ball go straight and ill-fitting clubs do not allow the ball to go straight when you make a proper swing.

I like the point you make here rustyredcab, although I do not agree.

The reason I do not agree with you is because I believe shaft flex to be important for a beginner, so to get it relatively close to the individuals required flex.  Once this person has increased skill to the point that the clubs do not mach their swing at all they may want different clubs or even getting their clubs re-shafted. Now in saying that. a STATIC fitting would definitely be a good idea opposed to none at all.

Thanks for the input rustyredcab!

Mitch G

Under my method you do need to guess at flex (and one should guess weaker than many egos allow). And I agree that the best flex will/may change as one learns to properly swing a club. Tweaking shafts may never end as one progresses. How much you load the club and how fast you swing will change with changed technique.

However, lie and length should be based solely on the measurements of the person and the swing method they hope to achieve. If you lie is off, a proper swing will not hit the ball straight. So, a beginner with clubs that have the wrong lie, will learn some way to compensate for the incorrect fitting clubs and will learn a swing flaw. We will try and make the ball go where we want with the clubs we have.

If you are set in your ways from years of playing with an "individual" or flawed swing, go ahead and get clubs that fit your swing as it is. This works for my dad and uncles and anyone else who has decided to play with the swing they have today from now on. If you hope to learn to get the club in the correct position at impact, get fit for that correct position.

I think a dynamic fitting for any golfer looking to dramatically improve their swing, can sabotage the improvement process.

This is all very true, I fall into that exact example you have stated. I had a stock set of beginner clubs before which was the incorrect length for me which I could easily compensate and the incorrect lie which I didn't realize. The lie with my old clubs was with the toe of the club up a little bit and it caused me to pull the ball.

I believe that flex should be adjusted for a beginner to match his or her swing specifically, again after this  persons swing is relatively consistent.  And to the point of the golfers swing changing over time which is true for many if not all golfers, then they should get the shafts checked and flexes adjusted.

Anyway, although we don't completely agree with all of each others ideas on the subject I think you bring up some really great points!

Thanks for your opinion!

Mitch G

Any level of golfer can see gains from getting fitted for golf clubs. They might not be able to optimize it with there swing as much, but its still better than nothin. To me, get the lie right, get the lofts checked for correct gaps, get shafts fitted for the swing speed, find a club that will give them confidence to hit the shot. This i think will help any golfer and wont break the budget. Its really not asking much, and can be done easily.

I have a small mobile golf club fitting/build/repair business now for 10 years or so and my clientele are handicappers from 18 to 30 (and higher). I am no big name well known old school fitter. I am a data cruncher. I like to study/read/investigate a topic over it's entire life time to see what's really going on and then make my decision as to what I believe is real/unreal. I learn, I do not create theory's. And this ticks off a lot of people in the fitting business at times because it makes the industry seem much simpler for the average golfer and they like the mystique of fitting and building golf clubs. Those that have been around the longest are the ones that yell and scream the most when change is upon them.

Some golfers have never taken a lesson, some never will, some will not listen to you when you tell them they need lessons. I do not give lessons. I can set a person up with the basics of a grip/swing/stance, but prefer an instructor to take on the task of giving lessons. I do not like the way the industry gives lessons, they are all over the map, everyone seems to contradict each others methods, so it's really a cluster f%$k out there IMHO. In reality they never tell you that each person has a hidden swing that is natural to them and can be repeated with less difficulty than trying to teach everyone the very same 'everything'. They just won't tell you that because it cuts into their $$$$.

When I fit someone,  I realize money is more important to most of them than anything else (hence the reason they do not take lessons).

I will take their swing speed, let them hit some balls, I use a 7 iron and most others use a 6 iron. I find the 7 iron gets better results 'now' and that's what they are looking for.

I'll take measurements and talk to them about what they are shooting (they never tell the truth) and what they hope to shoot (which is never going to happen without lessons) and build one club, just one club. May be a 7 and may be a 6 depending on how well they hit during the fitting.

When they hit this newly built (yet quite inexpensive club) they are always amazed.

They take easy uniform swings and hit the ball a decent distance but very accurately.

Every shot they take is to a different target. No standing up and swatting balls like flies. They find they have much better results, more confidence and if they will continue with this effort, including some lessons, they'll drop at least 10 strokes a round in the first season with a small basic set of clubs. 5 wood (for some a 3 wood), 6-9 irons, and a putter. Sometimes I'll throw in a 7 wood or equal in a hybrid if they are capable of hitting a three wood.

I tell them to just go out and practice 3 times a week, hit a ball every minute at the very most. Take aim with every shot. Take their time. Don't spend more than an hour hitting balls off grass or mats. Practice putting and chipping (with the 9 iron) on their own (costs nothing) and in a month come back and give me some sort of an update. I've never seen a person fail to improve that actually did the above.

Decades past there was once a move to make all irons the same length (some data cruncher saw something!), but the manufacturers would not have anything to do with it due to $$$$$.

Now believe it or not, the newer thoughts in fitting have drifted away from the standard half inch difference in shaft lengths for those of you that have not heard. There are several groups of people (can't name them) that have been running computer programs on swings and have finally come to the realization that there is a happy spot so to speak for each golfer.

A length of club that is best for that golfer.

This excludes a putter/driver and woods, but includes irons/hybrids.

Same length clubs are coming back?.

There is an 50 year old or older statement made by the golf industry and fitters that is called the 38/24 rule.

It says that the average weekend golfer (not a past/present/future PGA pro, college player, high school player) cannot hit consistently a golf club that is either longer than 38 inches or with a loft less than 24 degrees.

If you'll check your clubs you'll find your best clubs fall into this range. It's not magic, it's physics, geometry, forces, gravity, etc that determine what is best for each golfer; not a fitter or instructor.
Yet, most fitters and instructors do not know or do not care about this again because of $$$$$. If you could give a person 4 lessons and have them drop 10 strokes off their game it would not profit you as much as giving them 10 lessons and telling them they need to come back every year for a 4 lesson refresher course. Just economics. Yet instructors are where one needs to go to get 'instructions' to improve their swing.

So, find a good fitter, get your swing speed verified, get yourself a club built and try it out. You might be surprised what you can do with it. And drop the ego and get a lesson or two?

The way you will know is to take your 6 iron and go and hit a small bucket of balls. Write down every shots results (good/bad/ugly just be brutally honest).

Take the 6 iron and this list of results to a fitter, have him check your swing speed, shaft and even more importantly than anyone thinks have him check your grip (not the way you hold the club, the actual grip on the shaft) too many golfers are not using the proper grip on their shafts.

are too small, too hard, too old, etc.

Bubba Watson notes this as one of the most common mistakes made in club fitting.

He uses the jumbo grips with 10 layer of tape under it plus the double sided tape. This fits no industry standard but it fits Bubba's hands so that he is comfortable with his club.

Imagine how big his grips are compared to the average golfer.

The fitter will check everything from swing weight/over all weight, shaft flex, grip size and condition, club head and condition of it relative to lie/loft for your swing, he may make some adjustments to your lie, replace the grip, replace the shaft, etc.
When he is through and you come and pick up the club go hit the same bucket of balls and compare all of the results.

The one thing that most golfers don't understand is the actual total distance they should be getting out of a golf club, not carry, total distance.

Everyone thinks they ought to hit the ball like a pro.

Lee Trevino said it best. For a weekend golfer to shoot bogie golf is like a pro shooting par and we don't do it every time we go out.

Some quick research will reveal what pros get and what the average golfer get.

Shoot for only what the average golfer gets and be happy.

It'll be difficult enough to do that accurately.

I have fit for a couple of club companies for over a decade and have had a lot of training with some incredible swing coaches and instructors. The past 5 years has been a lot of certification and instruction using trackman and flightscope. I have fit 1000s and 1000s of amateurs, weekend hacks, both women and men, professional athletes, pros alike. Much of what has already been said above is true. I believe the OP intention of his post is for someone relatively new to the game or someone who maybe interested to go to the next level of improvement. I believe a repeatable or consistent swing is paramount- to exact fitting. Including if the the swing is less than desirable to the golfer. Grip, posture, tempo and alignment can correct most of it with a trained eye and better fitting results will be possible.

If you're going to buy clubs, it doesn't cost anymore to get clubs that fit versus clubs that don't.  Close inspection of your divot on a good swing will let one know if their clubs are a good fit.  I have nary a clue about how to pick out a shaft.

Instead of starting a new thread, I thought this would be a good one to ask what is probably a really dumb question...

First, some background. I've been playing for about three years now and have always had second-hand clubs. Most of these, as far as I know, have standard length, loft, lie, grips. At 5'6, I'm shorter than average. My distance gaps seem to be pretty consistent and I've done some tests and found that the lies on my current irons are pretty close when I make contact with the ball. That of course would change if the shafts were shortened.

So I'm unsure about what the term "fitting" refers to. Is it just gathering up the facts or specs of what an individual needs? Or does it include the actual modification of the clubs? I've tried asking the golf shop what a fitting includes but there seems to be some communication breakdown - on my part.

I tried some Mizuno JPX 850's out at this shop and really liked them. They offer club fitting which I believe runs $65 for irons and is applied towards the price of the clubs if purchased through them. Do most shops charge additionally for any alterations such as shortening shafts, adjusting lie angles, changing grips, changing shafts? I can't imagine they would do all that for the price of a new set of irons. Golfsmith has the JPX 825's for a lot less and they also offer free fittings.

Feel free to ridicule. I admit to being pretty stupid when it comes to this stuff.

Fitting means changing the base specs to something that matches closer to your swing so the clubs are not hindering what your swing is doing. Basically the swing matters way more than fitting in  most cases. Still, it is a variable that you don't have to account for when you are trying to hit the ball. I rather not have to take into account the club could be 3 degrees too upright so I need to adjust my aim.

Basically a good fitter will find the right lie angle for the length of clubs you want. Most clubs can be made with the lie angles to match what you need.

Mostly a fitting is a trial and error process taking the clubs you want to try out down to close to what fits to your swing. In the end you are going to compare the clubs + shafts to the feel and look and figure out which one you like the best. Really in the end you will have a short list of clubs that all perform nearly the same. Really the end decision will be what feels most comfortable for you. At the end they will check the lie angle, and maybe some other options like soft or hard stepping the golf shafts, as well as the length of the clubs.

Most places will wave the price if you buy the clubs that day. They basically want to limit the amount of times people get fitted, and will just be part of the clubs final price, which means you get a fitting included in the price of the clubs. If you went to the website and saw a set of clubs at $600. Clubs + fitting would be $600 if you bought the clubs that day, baring any custom options to the clubs you might want (exotic golf shafts).

Alterations to clubs as part of the first buy are usually in the cost of the club. So if you buy Mizuno clubs they can adjust the lie, loft and length of each club for you and that would be the same price as if you just bought the clubs off the rack. The reason is that Mizuno will do these modifications as part of the club making process.

Now if you came back after the fact and needed to get your clubs bent more upright then that would cost extra.

Shafts depend on the one you are modifying to. Some are considered stock shafts and are interchangeable at no extra cost. Others are custom shafts and could cost more, usually something like $5.00 - $35.00 per club for irons.

That is the same with grips. Some companies link to other club makers. Like golf pride might be a free upgrade from the in house Mizuno grips that are put on the clubs.

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I would of course check with the vendor before starting the process, but I now have a general understanding of the process.

Whatever I end up with, they will likely be cast and from what I've read, cannot be altered as much as the forged clubs. Hopefully, that will not be an issue. But I would like to do this right if I'm going to invest the money. Up until a couple of weeks ago, I didn't really understand the importance the type of shaft beyond the flex. It's good to know I may be able to change shafts if need be. This local shop used the same shaft for the two different club heads I tried. It took that part out of the equation with which felt better. They seem to know what they're doing. It may be worth spending the extra money going with them (plus they're local).

If you are going to buy used clubs then it might beneficial to go get fitted and shell out the $60 or so dollars to at least the the length and lie angles that match your swing. Given the shafts can change that a bit because they flex differently, but you would probably be closer then going in blind.

As for caste clubs, they can be bent but not as much, maybe a 1 degree at most. Forged clubs can be bent a lot more. Lets say you buy ping, they can get you a wide range of lie angles because they just use a different caste mold. So it isn't impossible to get the fitting you want in caste clubs. It might be more important to get it close as possible with caste clubs because of they are a bit more difficult to bend afterwards.