Iron Advice

Hi,

New to the forum and noticed that this is one of the best places to get opinions from folks who are as into golf as I am, and significantly more knowledgable then I am.  If I get long winded I apologize in advance.

In short:

I have been "load fitted" for my clubs at a great shop near where I live (Izett Golf).  They measure the amount of actual load I put on the shaft, plus swing speed to make shaft selections in addition to static measurements and good ol experience (novel idea right).  At any rate, they have recommended I go with x flex in my driver, to get a driver fitting is an additional $100, they also recommended I go 2 inches short on my irons (I'm 5'4" with longer arms) with a standard weight stiff flex (FCM to 5.8) shaft .  I tend to hit a super high ball and with my current shafts and I fight a pervasive hook with all of my clubs.  My current shafts are super light weight stock shafts that have been FCM to a 4.8 at 1 inch short (I butt cut them myself a few years ago).  I already choke down another inch on my current clubs.

I got my 8 iron done by them with their recommendation and it is rock solid.  They put a standard rifle shaft in and the dispersion is much tighter then it used to be and the ball flight, while still on the high side is much more penetrating. It just feels a ton more solid.

That said, I liked the custom fit idea of my current sticks, but given the cost (around $70 per stick on my current clubs) does it make more sense to get some used irons on ebay with some shafts that are closer to what was recommended and get those customized ($35 per stick)  In my mind I have a few options that I would like to get thoughts on:

Option 1:  Get my current clubs (2004 Nike Pro Combo Irons) reshafted, cut and balanced by Izett Golf ($560 for 8 clubs)

Option 2:  Get a used set on ebay of 2011 Nike Pro Combo Irons with either Project X 5.0 or 5.5 and have those cut and balanced only by Izette Golf ($475, estimate for the irons and $280 for the customization, $755 total)

Option 3:  Get used shafts (pull outs) from ebay and have them put in my current sticks or buy a newer used set of irons on ebay, to be customized

Option 4:  Get everything from ebay and try to do the work myself.  Obviously I would need to get the shafts extruded by a fitter.

I am open to suggestions, but feel pretty strongly that my game would vastly improve with clubs that fit me.  I am also curious about driver shafts and if the $100 is worth paying to then also need to buy a new shaft for my driver?  I hit my driver around 250 carry, but lose the ball left quite a bit with a crazy snap hook.  My swing speed is around 110 with the driver and my tempo is a touch quick.  My average 6 iron carry distance is 170, swing speed in the low 90's to high 80's.  I play to an 18 handicap, but really like the look of my current set, hence my love of the new pro combos.  Not to mention I think I can get my handicap down if I can have dependable equipment that I know will do what I want them to do.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

I wouldn't put $70 a club into a set of 2004 Nike Pro Combo irons.  Also would not recommend doing the work yourself if you don't have much experience with it.  My advice is to take the specs the fitter gave you and get a new set.  You went through the expense of getting a high-tech fitting, get the right clubs.

Ya I would agree to stick with the pro combo irons. I haven't hit them but the concept of them have always appealed to my eye and I heard they were good. And if you paid the money to have yourself fitted That may be a better investment than any other.

I guess that I don't understand the customization with a 2011 set - if you buy them already shafted up, where does your fitter come in other than cutting the shaft to size and gripping?

And how do you know that the set is really set up consistently throughout the set in terms of flex? Other than having a custom builder set up with new shafts, I haven't had a great experience with shaft consistency with OEMs?

So will the club maker chuck any shafts that are inconsistent and try to make a new one fit between the others? Is that included in the price?

I was kind of wondering the same thing. For 35 dollars a shaft the guys are stripping the grip, cleaning, cutting, taping to your specs, re-gripping, and bending loft/lie. Is that about right? I figured 10 for the work to cut, 15 for a great grip installed and 5 to bend, plus tax. You could almost buy new and send your specs and you could be close to your number (with the clubs added).

Mr. Desmond makes a valid point about consistency throughout the set, but at an 18 cap is OEM inconsistency with a rifle shaft really that bad to play a significant factor? I really never thought of it and even though I have had my stuff tested (did ditch a 3 wood a while back as it was frequencied beyond X) and it all was really close. I guess the question is what are you paying for exactly?

If you're going to spend close to $300 for customization, you might as well buy the current model from the factory, made to your specs. If you have any unusual grip requirements, you can order the grips "loose in the box" and have your fitter put them on for you. I asked about getting some new Winn grips on new irons from an OEM, and the company rep said they didn't carry them; he then suggested the "loose in the box" option - I could sell the standard grips and have my fitter put on the Winn grips.

As for frequency matching, rule of thumb for many clubfitters is to take a dozen shafts of the same model/flex and test them on a deflection board. Then, take the closest eight and put them into the set of irons. When you get into Project X or other shaft models that come pre-cut in sets, you have to hope quality control at the shaft maker is good.

That's exactly what I did. I ordered a set directly from Callaway made to my spec. I also wanted a grip they didn't have, so they sent them to me loose, and I gave them to a friend who has an older set of Callaway's. Did the same with my TaylorMade woods, and Cleveland wedges.

I would agree that for the price you are paying at that place, get the latest and greatest from which ever manufacturer you prefer. I love my Razr X HL's

Some very interesting points. I would love to go with new irons from the factory, however it seems new clubs to my specs from the manufacturer are going to be around $1,000, not to mention, that I have never seen anyone at golf galaxy or golfsmith seem willing to get my sticks 2 inches short. And that length is acctually really great for me. In regard to the fitter, the understanding I have is with my current clubs they would put new shafts, cut, regrip, and also frequency match as well as balance the clubs for swing weight and acctual weight. I was told that the actual weight becomes a major factor with clubs of this length in keeping the club feeling in balance though out the swing. I think, and I could be wrong, that the weight added to the clubs and the balancing done is what makes the clubs feel so much better. I do think $70 per club that I already have is a lot. Is this true? Also, in trying to keep cost down and getting clubs that fit me, used seems easier, however with shaft pullouts, it is clear there is a risk. I think my main questions now are: Is it worth it to try a cheap alternative with newer clubs from eBay? Or do I try to call the manufacturer about spending seemingly significantly more money on new clubs? And really, where is the best value? Could I get another fitter to do the work cheaper ect? Thanks again for your help

The best value is getting clubs that fit you.

If your custom fitter is doing all that - new shafts, cut and balanced for the short length at a consistent flex throughout the set - and you love the one club they did - go for it.

Buying what you love once is cheaper than buying what will not fit you twice ... or three times, as many unfortunately do.

I spent $225 per iron for a club that fits me - so don't feel as if you're spending too much money. Yeah, I went to a guy who is a perfectionist and fit me for every aspect. But I love the clubs and won't buy another set for 5 years or so.

Spending that much, just let them do the irons you'll actually use. I use 5-PW so that's what I have. I'd get newish club heads so the work will last a long time.

Buy right the first time and it is a great value.

Mr Desmond, I think I agree 90% with your assessment, however, my only concern is in putting the cost of a newer set of irons into irons from 2004.  The heads are in good shape, but am I missing something really extraordinary by not getting newer heads?  I hit the 2011 VR pro combo irons by nike and they felt incredible.  I imagine those irons with shafts that fit me as being game changers for my handicap.  I may just be trying to find a lower cost way of getting new toys for myself without upsetting my wife too much.

I guess I can ask the fitter if there are "creative" ways we can get to a more quality solution and also call nike about what they can do.

With your heads being 8 years old now, I'd say you might be missing something by not getting new gear. There's not drastic improvements from year to year generally. You won't see much difference between X20's and X22's. But you will see a big difference between X14's and X22's. I bought my fist set in 2004, and I still have a few of the clubs. There is a big difference in the irons between then and the ones I just bought. Wedges, not so much, but irons, yes. Even the drivers are fairly similar between then and now. Big difference in the driver is the materials used.

I think the member above offered great, general advice - golf design evolves - and in this case, putting $700-800 into non-comforming and 8 yr old heads ... just doesn't seem like a wise act. But it also depends on the condition of the heads. Still, 8 yr old and old grooves.

My question is "How do you hit the pro combo irons?"

I mean, you've got blades, and while you have pocket cavities in the 3-4i - they are longer shafts and generally, the toughest to hit consistently. And as an 18 hc, is your higher hc from driver and short game, and you hit the irons great?

I see the pro combos as more of a 10 and less capper, in general, which is why I ask the question.

http://thesandtrap.com/b/clubs/nike_victory_red_vr_pro_combo_irons_review

I also saw the above review of the 2011 pro combos - nice - but I also think they come in Dynamic Gold (steel) and Project X shafts, and you were looking at Rifle, and cutting them 2 inches to get to your spec. As you stated, maybe Nike has custom, no up charge shafts.  I would check that out. I also know many sites are having 15% off sales for the 4th of July that end tomorrow (?). But in the long run, it's best to get the club that fits, rather than a sale.

http://www.nike.com/nikeos/p/nikegolf/en_US/products/details?sku=GI7376

But tell us why you like these irons over what probably many are thinking, are a lot of club - nice clubs, though, I'd consider them from 5-PW. If not Nike, I'd be looking at Mizuno.

I'm amazed every single day at how many people are willing to piss away their hard earned cash for snake oil.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

All the irons from Nike are available in a rifle shaft.  That said, I just got off the phone with a rep and was told that they cannot go 2 inches short on the clubs from the factory, only 1 inch short.

In regard to my handicap, my biggest issue on the golf course is off the tee and short game.  my putting is fairly decent and my iron play is good.  Since having a few lessons and getting my 8 iron reshafted and cut down, I am much more in control of my irons and the hook is not showing up with that 8 iron.  It does come back with my other irons though.  I have no real problems with my longer irons other then the hook that can be hard to manage, but am really curious how proper shafts and lengths could impact my game.

Unfortunately I do not have the money for experimentation with other clubs and cannot spend both the money on new clubs AND getting them customized.  Hence my interest in trying to find another solution, i.e. used or doing the work myself, or at least ordering the materials myself and having the fitter install everything.

Additionally, I love the look at address of a thin top line with a narrower sole.  I have a lot of trouble hitting larger headed irons.  I will look at some other sets that may be more cost effective and suitable for my handicap.

Anyone have experience with the VR Pro Combo CB or the VRs forged cavity backs?

Also, what kind of drop in handicap did you see when you used equipment that properly fit you?

Are you not interested in properly fitted gear?  The 8 iron that I had done is really great,  I hit it straight and it feels very solid. I just don't really want to put almost $600 into irons that are worth $50.

I do want to play better golf and if my 8 iron evidence is an indicator I may be in the right conversation.

I believe that fitting is a waste for the mass majority of "golfers" in the world today. I believe that proper practice and instruction are far more important that a "fitting" for an inconsistent swing. I also believe that all the rocket scientist "fitters" that are out there are just trying to get deeper into the ignorant consumer's pockets. If "fitting" was so important there'd be less than 1000 different ways to do things and more on the same page. Go to 3 different fitters and you'll get 3 different results. Got to 10 different "fitters" and you'll get 7 different results. In other words, work on the swing and when a person gets that down, fine tune NOT fine tune then practice a poor / inconsistent swing.

Not sure if your assumptions and default accusation that I am a "golfer" are very helpful.  I take the game very seriously, and am hitting the ball significantly better now then ever.  If a shaft is going to help, and I am able to make that change in a more affordable way, what is the harm in that?  You assume that I am just hacking at the golf ball and wasting my time with a poor swing.

I was looking for helpful opinions not accusations of my limited skill.  While your points are valid in terms of fixing the indian not the arrow (and I do work on my swing), you must acknowledge that sometimes a straight arrow can help any indian.