I've learned one thing -- golf is all about doing everything right, ALL the time!

**formula428** · July 23, 2012

I've been golfing for about 2 months now, handicap is slowly getting better (at 24.3). But, one thing I've noticed about golf from other sports/games is that you ALWAYS have to be perfect. Well, maybe not always, but missing one shot normally doesn't just "cost" you one stroke.

I play competitive beach volleyball in tournaments quite often. When I miss a spike or dig, we only lose 1 point. The next point starts from scratch and nothing else is affected.

However with golf, if I miss my iron shot and hit it into the water, I lose that shot and my penalty stroke, plus my next placement typically will be compromised, which could again lead to trouble (though not always). So, missing 1 shot in golf could cost you 2 or even 3 strokes. Same with chipping or putting, which may end up costing a couple/few strokes.

What's your take with always hitting the ball "well-enough" to avoid costly strokes/penalties when playing a round? How do you set your mind to that? Any tips for improving consistency?

**kevin.chan** · July 23, 2012

Golf is one of the hardest sport to play perfectly !

When you try very hard to play better but the result show otherwise...lol !

So just enjoy every shot .

**ghalfaire** · July 24, 2012

I golf is mostly about avoiding the "big miss". Those are shots that cost you more shots. I know there is more to the game than just that but for me it is about staying on the playing field and out of the woods. Sort of a "be all you can be" as opposed to "it's an adventure" philosophy, since most of us will never be Tiger or Jack. It is never about being perfect because that is not an achievable goal in golf. There is no such thing as a 300 game (bowling) in golf.

**LovinItAll** · July 24, 2012

I've been golfing for about 2 months now, handicap is slowly getting better (at 24.3). But, one thing I've noticed about golf from other sports/games is that you ALWAYS have to be perfect. Well, maybe not always, but missing one shot normally doesn't just "cost" you one stroke. I play competitive beach volleyball in tournaments quite often. When I miss a spike or dig, we only lose 1 point. The next point starts from scratch and nothing else is affected. However with golf, if I miss my iron shot and hit it into the water, I lose that shot and my penalty stroke, plus my next placement typically will be compromised, which could again lead to trouble (though not always). So, missing 1 shot in golf could cost you 2 or even 3 strokes. Same with chipping or putting, which may end up costing a couple/few strokes. What's your take with always hitting the ball "well-enough" to avoid costly strokes/penalties when playing a round? How do you set your mind to that? Any tips for improving consistency?

You'll figure this out soon enough, but IMO, playing good golf has a lot more to do with controlling your misses than hitting great shots. Excluding putting, maybe once or twice per round I get to say, "Even a pro would be happy with that shot." The next time you're with someone who shoots even or in the 70's, watch their game. They aren't usually going to wow you with spectacular golf shots, but they do a good job of staying out of the junk, not short siding themselves, etc. Re: "What's your take?" Setting your mind to it: - When you get to the course, pay attention to your misses on the driving range when you're warming up. If you're slicing every ball, play that on the golf course. Chances are you're not going to miraculously start hitting it straight. - If you're a 20+ HC, figure out what it takes for you to make solid contact with the ball. If you can avoid topping it and hitting fat shots, you should be scaring 90 every round. This may mean that during a round that you're playing for score, you may have to abandon something new you're working on and just focus on making good contact. - Avoiding costly penalties: As an example, if you have a hole where your approach shot is over water and it's always going to be 150+ out, lay up. It won't do much for your ego, but your scorecard will appreciate it. Oh, and take more club than you think you need. Others will (and have) debated this, but it's my experience that, at your level, if you think the shot requires an 8i, pulling 7i will rarely hurt you. Try blowing that 7i over the green. If you are successful, consider it a good shot. If you aren't, you'll probably end up in better shape than if you'd pulled 8i.

**Double Bogey** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by LovinItAll
Oh, and take more club than you think you need. Others will (and have) debated this, but it's my experience that, at your level, if you think the shot requires an 8i, pulling 7i will rarely hurt you. Try blowing that 7i over the green. If you are successful, consider it a good shot. If you aren't, you'll probably end up in better shape than if you'd pulled 8i.

Fantastic advice IMO

**gwlee7** · July 24, 2012

The key will be to never follow a bad shot with a worse one.

**sean_miller** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by gwlee7

The key will be to never follow a bad shot with a worse one.

That might be the most important key.

**sacm3bill** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

...Oh, and take more club than you think you need. Others will (and have) debated this, but it's my experience that, at your level, if you think the shot requires an 8i, pulling 7i will rarely hurt you. Try blowing that 7i over the green. If you are successful, consider it a good shot. If you aren't, you'll probably end up in better shape than if you'd pulled 8i.

I'll debate it! :-) Going long is not the only risk you're taking when you pull a longer club. First, even if you hit it straight, in general there's more chance of there being trouble behind the green (rough, OB, trees) than in front of it (where at worst you're still in the short grass with no obstructions if you don't make it to the green). Second, any error in direction is going to be magnified with a longer club. So whereas offline and short means you're probably still safe, offline and long means you could be in a greenside bunker, or rough to the side/back of the green. Third, in general the longer the club the more potential for *any* error - not just in direction and distance, but in fats and thins as well.

It really depends on the situation, but I just think in most situations you're better off short than long. Experiment and see, just keep the above in mind.

**sean_miller** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

...Oh, and take more club than you think you need. Others will (and have) debated this, but it's my experience that, at your level, if you think the shot requires an 8i, pulling 7i will rarely hurt you. Try blowing that 7i over the green. If you are successful, consider it a good shot. If you aren't, you'll probably end up in better shape than if you'd pulled 8i.

I'll debate it! :-) Going long is not the only risk you're taking when you pull a longer club. First, even if you hit it straight, in general there's more chance of there being trouble behind the green (rough, OB, trees) than in front of it (where at worst you're still in the short grass with no obstructions if you don't make it to the green). Second, any error in direction is going to be magnified with a longer club. So whereas offline and short means you're probably still safe, offline and long means you could be in a greenside bunker, or rough to the side/back of the green. Third, in general the longer the club the more potential for *any* error - not just in direction and distance, but in fats and thins as well.

It really depends on the situation, but I just think in most situations you're better off short than long. Experiment and see, just keep the above in mind.

My daughter has a golf book written by Chistina Ricci (not that one - someone who went from beginner to a 5 handicap in 3 years - a very well written book with lots of photos and she's sure not hard to look at, but I digress). She outlines how to determine your distances for all your clubs and in it she very strongly stress not taking more club in response to less than solid contact / mishits. It's not a book aimed at my gender, but she claims players will progress quicker by determing the correct yardage for a full swing with each club, then working on developing the swing that consistently makes those shots. It's fairly consistent with player I know who've progressed beyond 18. Determine your stock distances, then learn to trust them.

That I can't recall ever playing a course where missing long is generally preferable to missing short is another debate entirely. There are exceptions of course, but around here flying greens leads to big numbers.

**LovinItAll** · July 24, 2012

I'll debate it! :-) Going long is not the only risk you're taking when you pull a longer club. First, even if you hit it straight, in general there's more chance of there being trouble behind the green (rough, OB, trees) than in front of it (where at worst you're still in the short grass with no obstructions if you don't make it to the green). Second, any error in direction is going to be magnified with a longer club. So whereas offline and short means you're probably still safe, offline and long means you could be in a greenside bunker, or rough to the side/back of the green. Third, in general the longer the club the more potential for *any* error - not just in direction and distance, but in fats and thins as well. It really depends on the situation, but I just think in most situations you're better off short than long. Experiment and see, just keep the above in mind.

Allow me to rephrase: Unless the pin is in the back, take an extra club. If the pin is in the middle or in the front, even if you flush the extra club, you'll still be on the green, as most greens - unless they're very small - are an extra club deep even if the pin is in the middle. I KNOW there are exceptions. Greens are usually more heavily guarded front than rear (bunkers, water, etc.). For awhile on Sunday, I tracked the last two group's approach shots in The Open. For the shots I tracked through ~ 11 holes: # of shots: Past the pin = 13 Hole High = 11 More than 15' Short = 7 Before the obvious comments start rolling in related to what long at RL&SA; meant to the players, I'm going to say that these results are what I see every week. Pros end up long or hole high more often than they end up short. Amateurs don't. In other words, pros get the ball to the hole. Take from that what you will. This was debated in another thread. This is my advice to the OP. He can take it or not.

**beisenhauer** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by gwlee7

The key will be to never follow a bad shot with a worse one.

Never follow a bad shot with a stupid one. Worse often comes as a result of stupid.

**LovinItAll** · July 24, 2012

That I can't recall ever playing a course where missing long is generally preferable to missing short is another debate entirely. There are exceptions of course, but around here flying greens leads to big numbers.

I'm not sure why many people think pulling an extra club = flying it over the green. By example: Even if we know our exact distances with approach irons, we don't usually end up with the perfect number. Given an average of 10 yards between clubs (adjust based on your game), if the pin is in the middle on a 25 yard deep green, this is what we usually end up with: 130 in. Let's say a golfer hits 8 135 and 9 125. 8 is almost always the club, not 'hard nine'. Perfect 8 leaves golfer 15' (5 yards) past the pin. Even to a back pin, it's not usually cut less than 5 paces. 130 in. Golfer hits perfect 9 130, perfect 8 140. Again, if golfer is a 10 or worse, he is hitting very few shots flush. If he pulls 8 and hits it 140, he's 30' past (available on most, not all, greens). Unless the pin is cut back, there is almost always 30' available past the pin. More likely, though, he pulls 8 and doesn't catch it perfectly, leaving himself hole high, a little short, or a little long. Hitting 9 less than flush, he's never going to be hole high unless the bad shot was a skuller. I'd rather be putting from 15' or less every time regardless of green speed/slope, but that's just me. Re: advice from the book mentioned - it's great advice once a golfer starts hitting most shots the correct distance.

**sacm3bill** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Allow me to rephrase:

Unless the pin is in the back, take an extra club. If the pin is in the middle or in the front, even if you flush the extra club, you'll still be on the green, as most greens - unless they're very small - are an extra club deep even if the pin is in the middle. I KNOW there are exceptions...

Well, there's another side to that coin too. The conventional wisdom is that for most higher handicap players (I include myself in that group), it's better to make the middle of the green than to base your shot on where the pin is.

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

...For awhile on Sunday, I tracked the last two group's approach shots in The Open. For the shots I tracked through ~ 11 holes:

# of shots:

Past the pin = 13
Hole High = 11
More than 15' Short = 7

Before the obvious comments start rolling in related to what long at RL&SA; meant to the players, I'm going to say that these results are what I see every week. Pros end up long or hole high more often than they end up short. Amateurs don't. In other words, pros get the ball to the hole. Take from that what you will.

Obviously pros get the ball to the hole better than amateurs, but most of that is a result of superior ball striking. Those numbers you have there for short/pin-high/long are already pretty close to being evenly distributed, within the margin of error for such a small sample size. If you had included short shots that were *less* than 15' short, they'd be even more so. If you're telling me you think pros purposely try to get past the pin on every shot, I don't believe it. Whether their goal is short, long, or pin-high depends on many factors, such as whether they are trying to manage a potential miss and not be short sided, and which side of the pin will leave them an uphill putt.

**sacm3bill** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

That I can't recall ever playing a course where missing long is generally preferable to missing short is another debate entirely. There are exceptions of course, but around here flying greens leads to big numbers.

I'm not sure why many people think pulling an extra club = flying it over the green.

It's because that's the strategy you are advocating:

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Oh, and take more club than you think you need. Others will (and have) debated this, but it's my experience that, at your level, if you think the shot requires an 8i, pulling 7i will rarely hurt you. Try blowing that 7i over the green. If you are successful, consider it a good shot. If you aren't, you'll probably end up in better shape than if you'd pulled 8i.

**sacm3bill** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Even if we know our exact distances with approach irons, we don't usually end up with the perfect number. Given an average of 10 yards between clubs (adjust based on your game), if the pin is in the middle on a 25 yard deep green, this is what we usually end up with:

130 in.
Let's say a golfer hits 8 135 and 9 125.
8 is almost always the club, not 'hard nine'. Perfect 8 leaves golfer 15' (5 yards) past the pin. Even to a back pin, it's not usually cut less than 5 paces.

130 in.
Golfer hits perfect 9 130, perfect 8 140.
Again, if golfer is a 10 or worse, he is hitting very few shots flush. If he pulls 8 and hits it 140, he's 30' past (available on most, not all, greens). Unless the pin is cut back, there is almost always 30' available past the pin. More likely, though, he pulls 8 and doesn't catch it perfectly, leaving himself hole high, a little short, or a little long. Hitting 9 less than flush, he's never going to be hole high unless the bad shot was a skuller. I'd rather be putting from 15' or less every time regardless of green speed/slope, but that's just me.

In your first example you say it's a choice between an 8 or a 'hard nine', implying the 8 is the correct shot since it's a regular swing. But the choice is really between a 'soft 8' and a 'hard 9', if you're trying to get pin high. If you're not trying to get pin high, it's simply a choice between 8 and 9, since each struck perfectly will leave you the same distance to the hole. So we're back to the original issue - is it better to be long or short by the same amount? I think short, and think I made the reasons for that clear in my first post.

**LovinItAll** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

In your first example you say it's a choice between an 8 or a 'hard nine', implying the 8 is the correct shot since it's a regular swing. But the choice is really between a 'soft 8' and a 'hard 9', if you're trying to get pin high. If you're not trying to get pin high, it's simply a choice between 8 and 9, since each struck perfectly will leave you the same distance to the hole. So we're back to the original issue - is it better to be long or short by the same amount? I think short, and think I made the reasons for that clear in my first post.

No, I'm saying hit the full 8, don't try to hit a soft 8.

Doesn't matter, we're going to disagree. That's fine.

Also, I'm not advocating a strategy of trying to blow it over the green on every hole. I'm saying that. if it's close and you're a high handicapper, pulling an extra club is NOT going to result in blowing it over the green, even if you try.

Re: the comment about hitting it to the center of the green being a good strategy....+1

EDIT: Sure would like some good (scratch or better) golfers to weigh in on this issue.

**sean_miller** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

In your first example you say it's a choice between an 8 or a 'hard nine', implying the 8 is the correct shot since it's a regular swing. But the choice is really between a 'soft 8' and a 'hard 9', if you're trying to get pin high. If you're not trying to get pin high, it's simply a choice between 8 and 9, since each struck perfectly will leave you the same distance to the hole. So we're back to the original issue - is it better to be long or short by the same amount? I think short, and think I made the reasons for that clear in my first post.

No, I'm saying hit the full 8, don't try to hit a soft 8.

Doesn't matter, we're going to disagree. That's fine.

Also, I'm not advocating a strategy of trying to blow it over the green on every hole. I'm saying that. if it's close and you're a high handicapper, pulling an extra club is NOT going to result in blowing it over the green, even if you try.

Re: the comment about hitting it to the center of the green being a good strategy....+1

EDIT: Sure would like some good (scratch or better) golfers to weigh in on this issue.

In the August Golf Digest, Keegan Bradley gives his keys to playing well. He suggests when faced with an in between yardage to always go with less club. Is he a good enough player for you?

I think you're stuck between doling out advice for high handicappers and low handicappers.

Let me simplify this if you're addressing a high handicapper. They couldn't likely tell the difference between a hard 9 and a full of soft 8. They should be carrying a bag with about 6 clubs. A driving club, a long fairway club, a medium club, a short iron, a sand wedge, and a putter. They should hit the longest ones until they're in range for the short iron, then can try to get up and down once from whatever random direction and distance they'll have undoubtedly missed the green.

**sacm3bill** · July 24, 2012

Originally Posted by LovinItAll

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

In your first example you say it's a choice between an 8 or a 'hard nine', implying the 8 is the correct shot since it's a regular swing. But the choice is really between a 'soft 8' and a 'hard 9', if you're trying to get pin high. If you're not trying to get pin high, it's simply a choice between 8 and 9, since each struck perfectly will leave you the same distance to the hole. So we're back to the original issue - is it better to be long or short by the same amount? I think short, and think I made the reasons for that clear in my first post.

No, I'm saying hit the full 8, don't try to hit a soft 8.

Doesn't matter, we're going to disagree. That's fine.

Also, I'm not advocating a strategy of trying to blow it over the green on every hole. I'm saying that. if it's close and you're a high handicapper, pulling an extra club is NOT going to result in blowing it over the green, even if you try.

Re: the comment about hitting it to the center of the green being a good strategy....+1

EDIT: Sure would like some good (scratch or better) golfers to weigh in on this issue.

Disagreement is fine, we all just want people to hear both sides of the debate and make their own decisions. Although I still haven't seen you counter these arguments:

1) Any error in direction is going to be magnified with a longer club. So whereas offline and short means you're probably still safe, offline and long means you're more likely to be a greenside bunker, or rough to the side/back of the green, or wet, etc.

2) In general the longer the club the more potential for *any* error - not just in direction and distance, but in fats and thins as well.

All other things being equal, I might tend to agree with you: Try to be a bit longer as opposed to a bit shorter. But all other things are not equal, and you have to take those factors into account.

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