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White vs. Blue

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
Summers in New England my buddies (serious golfers) and I play from the blues (69.2/127). Winters I play in Florida with more casual golfers on a number of different courses and they prefer to play the whites (Generally around 65.5/109 or less). My question is: How does this impact my handicap when the boys from up north come down and we play from the blues? Let me ask the question this way: Assuming my play is consistent, if I play from the whites for a year then from the blues the next year, will my handicap be the same? I know the course rating and slope is considered when handicaps are calculated but I am not sure if i can move back and forth and have my handicap accurate from both. My Florida buddies want additional strokes if they play from the blues! THAT doesn't sound right, if it is, how is it calculated?
post #2 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDjr View Post

Summers in New England my buddies (serious golfers) and I play from the blues (69.2/127). Winters I play in Florida with more casual golfers on a number of different courses and they prefer to play the whites (Generally around 65.5/109 or less). My question is: How does this impact my handicap when the boys from up north come down and we play from the blues? Let me ask the question this way: Assuming my play is consistent, if I play from the whites for a year then from the blues the next year, will my handicap be the same? I know the course rating and slope is considered when handicaps are calculated but I am not sure if i can move back and forth and have my handicap accurate from both. My Florida buddies want additional strokes if they play from the blues! THAT doesn't sound right, if it is, how is it calculated?

 

Why not just play from the tees you want to play from all the time?  I played a few times in Florida when I used to visit my parents in Ft. Myers, and the guys I got paired with always played the senior tees (one set back from the most forward), but I played the middle set one tee back of them because that was more what I was used to.  It was still shorter than what I play on my home course in Denver, but I was at sea level as opposed to a mile high, so it was a good match.  Nobody ever had any issue with me playing the longer tees.

post #3 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDjr View Post

Summers in New England my buddies (serious golfers) and I play from the blues (69.2/127). Winters I play in Florida with more casual golfers on a number of different courses and they prefer to play the whites (Generally around 65.5/109 or less). My question is: How does this impact my handicap when the boys from up north come down and we play from the blues? Let me ask the question this way: Assuming my play is consistent, if I play from the whites for a year then from the blues the next year, will my handicap be the same? I know the course rating and slope is considered when handicaps are calculated but I am not sure if i can move back and forth and have my handicap accurate from both. My Florida buddies want additional strokes if they play from the blues! THAT doesn't sound right, if it is, how is it calculated?

 

 

It shouldn't matter.  You should score a few strokes better from the white tees and the different rating should account for that.

post #4 of 23
Unless you're scoring more than 4 strokes better when you're playing from the lower rated course/tees (tee color is irrelevant) your handicap index will tend to go up significantly when you play the shorter, easier course.

Your index is what it is. Moving from course to course does not change the index.....BUT, your course handicap changes from course to course and from tee to tee, based on the slope of the course and tees that you choose to play. There should be a posted course handicap sheet in your clubhouse that you and your buddies can refer to when playing a different set of tees. When you're competing against each other, you use your individual course handicaps to determine the distribution of strokes....and Fourputt is absolutely right. You can play a different set of tees from your buddies and the change in course handicap will adjust for the added difficulty.

The USGA handicap manual can provide some additional details if you want some interesting, light reading. a1_smile.gif


http://www.usga.org/rule-books/handicap-system-manual/handicap-manual/
post #5 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GDjr View Post

Summers in New England my buddies (serious golfers) and I play from the blues (69.2/127). Winters I play in Florida with more casual golfers on a number of different courses and they prefer to play the whites (Generally around 65.5/109 or less). My question is: How does this impact my handicap when the boys from up north come down and we play from the blues? Let me ask the question this way: Assuming my play is consistent, if I play from the whites for a year then from the blues the next year, will my handicap be the same? I know the course rating and slope is considered when handicaps are calculated but I am not sure if i can move back and forth and have my handicap accurate from both. My Florida buddies want additional strokes if they play from the blues! THAT doesn't sound right, if it is, how is it calculated?

 

 

It shouldn't matter.  You should score a few strokes better from the white tees and the different rating should account for that.

 

This is an "it depends" situation.  If the shorter tees are designed to keep the bunkers and hazards in play for shorter hitters, then a longer hitter playing from them will blast right over the trouble, and may find it even easier than the rating adjustment accounts for.  A lot depends on the course design and the player involved.

post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 
Hey guys, thanks for the feedback.
According to the USGA handicap calculator if you have a 15 index and you are playing from the blues (124 slope) your course handicap is 16 and if you are playing from the whites (110 slope) your course handicap is 15. Only 1 stroke difference!! That doesn't sound right to me. I think David in FL's estimate of 4 strokes sounds closer to reality. What am I missing?
post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDjr View Post

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback.
According to the USGA handicap calculator if you have a 15 index and you are playing from the blues (124 slope) your course handicap is 16 and if you are playing from the whites (110 slope) your course handicap is 15. Only 1 stroke difference!! That doesn't sound right to me. I think David in FL's estimate of 4 strokes sounds closer to reality. What am I missing?

The course rating is going to be higher from the blues than the whites. That will give you a few strokes in your differential. The slope has noting to do with it.
post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Ahhhhhhh, that could be my problem. How do you calculate a 15 index's course handicap using ratings for the blue and white tees not the slope?
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf View Post


The course rating is going to be higher from the blues than the whites. That will give you a few strokes in your differential. The slope has noting to do with it.

Not quite right - both the course rating and slope affect your differential.

 

Your course HC is entirely based on slope.

 

If you are playing from different sets of tees than playing partners, then you need to used course rating to determine additional strokes for those playing tougher tee boxes.

post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 
Ok, perhaps it is more complicated than I thought! Monday we played Summerglen in Ocala FL. The white tees are 67.2/108 and the blue tees are 69.5/125. How do you calculate the course handicaps from the white and blue tees for a golfer with a 15 index. Show me the math! I have always just used the USGA handicap calculator see http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/calculator/course_handicap_calculator.asp
post #11 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDjr View Post

Ok, perhaps it is more complicated than I thought! Monday we played Summerglen in Ocala FL. The white tees are 67.2/108 and the blue tees are 69.5/125. How do you calculate the course handicaps from the white and blue tees for a golfer with a 15 index. Show me the math! I have always just used the USGA handicap calculator see http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/calculator/course_handicap_calculator.asp

First of all, use that calculator with index and slope to find out everyones course HC, then you can either add 2 strokes to the blue guys HC, or subtract 2 from the white guys HC (69.5-67.2)

 

So a 15 from the whites is a 14, the 15 from the blues is 17, so basically, 2 guys with the same index playing from the whites to the blues is a 5 stroke difference.

 

Playing from 2 different sets of tees, playing against each other is not a perfect system, but this is the most equitable way. For skins it often doesnt work, because the handicap rating for each hole can be different from different sets of tees.

 

If you are all playing the same set of tees - it is irrelevant, the calculator gives you your course HC 

post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDjr View Post

Ahhhhhhh, that could be my problem. How do you calculate a 15 index's course handicap using ratings for the blue and white tees not the slope?

 

Course handicap is only a function of your current handicap index and the slope of the course/tees that you're playing that day.....

 

Handicap index is a function of BOTH course rating and slope and is calculated off the best 10 of your last 20 rounds played.

 

In my initial response, I meant that if you're normally playing the 69.2/127 course in summer, and then come down in the winter and play at 65.5/109, unless you score about 4 strokes better on average than you do up north, your handicap index is going to go up.  That means, that when your buddies come down, whichever set of tees you all choose to play, you're going to be getting more strokes from them than you would have up north.  Do you tend to score 4 strokes better on the course in FL than you do on the course up north?

 

When playing with the FL boyz, the only difference is the slope from one set of tees to another.  As you mention, the difference for someone with a handicap index of 15 is only one stroke between a slope of 110 and 124.....both 110 and 124 are right on the low and high ends respectively of the next threshold though, so at 109 and 125, it actually becomes a 3 stroke difference in course handicaps. 

 

I'm still going to fall back to Fourputt's point/recommendation...... et your FL buddies play from the up tees while you play from the blues.  Take your extra stroke on the course handicap and away you go.  You'll also be used to playing those tees when your buddies from up north come down so you'll have an added advantage there!  a1_smile.gif

post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
I am carefully reading all comments and if I am correct, Meenman and David in FL are not in agreement. David says use the USGA handicap calculator and tee'em up. http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/calculator/course_handicap_calculator.asp
While Meenman says use the calculator then adjust an amount of strokes equal to the difference in the ratings between the white and blue tees. Can we get a consensus?
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDjr View Post

I am carefully reading all comments and if I am correct, Meenman and David in FL are not in agreement. David says use the USGA handicap calculator and tee'em up. http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/calculator/course_handicap_calculator.asp
While Meenman says use the calculator then adjust an amount of strokes equal to the difference in the ratings between the white and blue tees. Can we get a consensus?

http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/understanding_handicap/articles/different_tees.html

 

now read it slowly - i gave you the condensed version

post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by GDjr View Post

I am carefully reading all comments and if I am correct, Meenman and David in FL are not in agreement. David says use the USGA handicap calculator and tee'em up. http://www.usga.org/playing/handicaps/calculator/course_handicap_calculator.asp
While Meenman says use the calculator then adjust an amount of strokes equal to the difference in the ratings between the white and blue tees. Can we get a consensus?

Meenman is correct. I left out the important part of adding the difference in course rating to the difference in course handicap when they're playing from different tees in the same round/competition. BUT.....if all of you have established your handicaps from the same set of tees, and then you all move back together, no one receives anything extra unless the change in course handicap dictates it.

In terms of your initial question though, the answer remains. You can move between tee sets all you like and your index will calculate based on the course rating and slope for each tee.
post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

 

This is an "it depends" situation.  If the shorter tees are designed to keep the bunkers and hazards in play for shorter hitters, then a longer hitter playing from them will blast right over the trouble, and may find it even easier than the rating adjustment accounts for.  A lot depends on the course design and the player involved.

 

 

That's a  good point.  My HC actually drops when I play from the tips because the difference in my score is less than the difference in the rating.

post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

 

 

That's a  good point.  My HC actually drops when I play from the tips because the difference in my score is less than the difference in the rating.

At my local courses the same thing applies to me. A lot of times the back tees and the the men's tees are on the same tee box and are separated by maybe 10 yards at most (some even less) yet the course rating is almost 2 shots higher from the back. 

post #18 of 23

Hope this will help clarify how differences are calculated.

 

I'm just showing the math for everyone.

 

Take the Summerglen Blue course rating and subtract it from White course rating. (69.5 - 67.2) = 2.3 Then round down or up when greater than .5

 

2 stokes would be subtracted from players at the "white tee course handicap.

 

Now for the fun part, each player uses there Ghin Index to determine their course handicap by ( Multiple the Index times Slope, then divide that number by 113 )

 

Example: Two players with an Index of "15.1" One will play the Blue course and the other the White course.

 

Slope rating of Blue - 125   ( 15.1 X 125 = 1887.5 divided by 113 = 16.7 round up to 17 )

 

Slope rating of White - 108  ( 15.1 X 108 = 1630.8 divided by 113 = 14.4 round down to 14 )

 

Then Player at the White Tees would play with ( 14 - 2 ) = 12 hdcp.

 

Player at the Blue tees would play with 17 hdcp.

 

Club Rat

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