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My Swing (billchao)

post #1 of 264
Thread Starter 

I've been Playing Golf for:​ 4 years

My current handicap index or average score is: 17

My typical ball flight is: High Fade

The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Push Fade/Slice

 


 

Videos:

 

 

Hit a bunch of straight fades this morning on the driving range, so I made an adjustment by adding an active arm swing later at home:

 

 

 

Sorry, no FO at the range because I forgot to charge my camera battery.

post #2 of 264

Ok so the path is across the ball causing you the issues with the slice/fade.  Doesn't really have anything to do with how active or not active your hands are.

 

I would recommend having more weight forward on the downswing to help with the path issues.  Better transfer will have the hips and shoulders less open and "lay" the shaft down.

 

Notice the difference in the left knee flex.  More info on that http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread#post_791160

 

Again note the difference in left knee flex/weight transfer and how it can effect the alignment of the shaft.

 

post #3 of 264
Great swing analysis...worth the price of admission,, very nice
post #4 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

Ok so the path is across the ball causing you the issues with the slice/fade.  Doesn't really have anything to do with how active or not active your hands are.

 

I would recommend having more weight forward on the downswing to help with the path issues.  Better transfer will have the hips and shoulders less open and "lay" the shaft down.

 

Notice the difference in the left knee flex.  More info on that http://thesandtrap.com/t/61376/5sk-video-thread#post_791160

 

Again note the difference in left knee flex/weight transfer and how it can effect the alignment of the shaft.

 

Thanks, Mike. I always thought my path problems had to do with my hips clearing too fast and my arms weren't syncing up properly. I knew my left knee straightened too early, but I never thought it was a weight forward issue. I'll definitely get working on it.

 

On another note, do you think my backswing is a little long? It looks on video that I stand up a bit right at the end, would that be a source of some consistency problems?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by c peterich View Post

Great swing analysis...worth the price of admission,, very nice

A bargain at twice the price! I always wanted to sign up for Evolvr, but money is a little tight right now, so I have to settle for this. Good thing these guys are willing to take time out of their days to help us bums out, for which I am extremely grateful.

post #5 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post
 

 

On another note, do you think my backswing is a little long? It looks on video that I stand up a bit right at the end, would that be a source of some consistency problems?

 

It is a little long but the head is pretty steady, just don't think it's the priority right now.  I think if you cleaned it up, it wouldn't help the downswing all that much.  I think when you make a change or a tweak it needs to have an immeditae positive effect on impact, the weight transfer is going to give you the most bang for your buck.   Yes the backswing is on the list of things to improve but not #1 right now IMO

post #6 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

It is a little long but the head is pretty steady, just don't think it's the priority right now.  I think if you cleaned it up, it wouldn't help the downswing all that much.  I think when you make a change or a tweak it needs to have an immeditae positive effect on impact, the weight transfer is going to give you the most bang for your buck.   Yes the backswing is on the list of things to improve but not #1 right now IMO

Ok, thanks, Mike. I won't worry about it then. Here is a video of me from this afternoon, working on the downswing:

 

I'm swinging past where Erik was on the 5SK video, but I think I'm getting it right? The last swing is a full swing with the new feel.

post #7 of 264
Thread Starter 

New range session = new videos! I started hooking and drawing them again, thanks Mike! Only missed maybe 10% right, still need to work on it.

 

I thought I was doing well based on the flight at the range, but as I watch the videos, I don't really see much of a difference. Club is still pointed inside of the ball and my elbows are still behind me. Looks like I dropped the hands a bit more and kept my hips from spinning out, but I still have to flatten out the downswing more. Definitely still have to get the weight forward more. The flaws look much more prominent in the driver swing - explains why I've been avoiding that club for a while.

 

6i DTL:

 

 

6i FO:

 

Driver DTL:

 

Driver FO:

 

I'm not very tech-savvy, so I apologize for making four separate videos. One of these days, I have to learn to edit them together (or even in slow motion - fancy).

post #8 of 264
I like your swing...looks good..just play more
post #9 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by c peterich View Post

I like your swing...looks good..just play more

Thanks. I'd love to play more, but I can't, so I'll devote my time to improving my swing. Mishits and those big push fades really make it hard to score when I do get out though. I know I can improve there.

 

I remember a few years ago, I played three rounds a week with a worse swing and I scored better, so I know I can benefit from simply playing more often. Unfortunately, golf is a game that requires money and commitment, and I have a lot more of the latter than the former.

post #10 of 264
Thread Starter 

New range session today. Tried a couple of different feels I've been working on all week. Hit mostly draws and overdraws, with a few fades as misses. Definitely seeing progress in the flight of the shots, though the changes in my actual swing are subtle.

 

Gonna try something new for analysis this week, so I made pictures. I may not have improved much in golfing, but at least my computer skills are getting better.

 

 

A1: Posture looks good DTL. I feel like I'm closer to the ball, so I'm standing taller, which allows me to round out that upper back (more posterior tilt). I strengthened my grip slightly from last week. My theory was that it would help with my right elbow action (it did a bit, but more on that later). Also tried to feel my lower center more forward, but I didn't notice much of a change there. I think I'll push the handle forward a bit more next time.

 

 

A2: Early wrist set. Took the club back way inside. Needs work. Less forearm rotation, or hinging of the wrists, I forget which, but I'll mess around with it until I figure it out.

 

A3: I need more hip turn, or at least to turn faster. This is pretty much it for lower body action; from here I just lift up my arms. Definitely need to work on this. Something else going on here because I'm way past 90° on the club to left arm angle. I believe it has to do with too much right wrist hinge. Right elbow looks solid here; I credit that to the grip change. It allowed me to pull my elbow more into my body in the takeaway as opposed to off to the side.

 

A4: Disaster. I watched the swing frame by frame, and from A3 to A4 I literally just lift up my arms until I hit this ridiculous position. I believe it was 12 frames at 60 FPS, so 0.2s of my swing is wasted motion.

 

A5: Need more pitch elbow. Shaft still too steep. Weight forward looks much better than before. Hip action still seems too fast, though. I've seen a lot of pros at A5 and their hips are definitely more closed at this point. Shaft angle problem persists, but I think it may have to do with my sequencing issues (from lifting my arms so high earlier).

 

A6: It's a hair past parallel at this point, but I think it still tells a decent picture. Clubhead would have been pretty much lined up with my hands, so a definite improvement there. Clubface looks slightly closed here, but the shot was a push-overdraw, so I'm not that concerned with it. Probably just open the club a hair at address. Hips are already in their impact or post impact position, not good there.

 

A7: Furyk-like. This is not the place to incorporate a Jim Furyk feeling.

 

Why can't this be my A4? This is my A3.5 position. Must stop swinging here.

 

I could probably get my weight more forward, but it's going to be hard to do without throwing my upper center towards the target as well. I'm going to keep working on that preset lower center forward feeling.

 

I also think that the overswing is seriously wrecking havoc on my sequencing. It feels like I have a two plane backswing with an one plane downswing. I believe that if I can keep the arms from lifting up, I'll be able to get my arms more in front of me as opposed to the side (more pitch elbow) and the arm swing will sync up more with the hip action. I'll film some 3/4 swings later to test my theory.

 

Takeaways: Need more weight forward, shorter backswing.

post #11 of 264

Very dramatic change in your swing since the first one. I agree, nice swing.

post #12 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post
 

A2: Early wrist set. Took the club back way inside. Needs work. Less forearm rotation, or hinging of the wrists, I forget which, but I'll mess around with it until I figure it out.

 

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the club being inside the hands, I think this is mostly camera angle.  Camera needs to be more down your stance line IMO  The leading edge isn't "toe up" so there isn't too much rolling going on.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post
 

 

Why can't this be my A4? This is my A3.5 position. Must stop swinging here.

 

I could probably get my weight more forward, but it's going to be hard to do without throwing my upper center towards the target as well. I'm going to keep working on that preset lower center forward feeling.

 

I also think that the overswing is seriously wrecking havoc on my sequencing. It feels like I have a two plane backswing with an one plane downswing. I believe that if I can keep the arms from lifting up, I'll be able to get my arms more in front of me as opposed to the side (more pitch elbow) and the arm swing will sync up more with the hip action. I'll film some 3/4 swings later to test my theory.

 

Just takes time.  Keep up the good work!

post #13 of 264
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. Maybe I'll get good at this game after all.

 

I'll adjust the camera position next time. I reread the article http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/filming_your_swing and realized where I made my mistake. Reading comprehension = fail. I guess the picture of the camera in the DTL position just stuck in my head so I thought it was supposed to be between my feet and the ball.

post #14 of 264
Thread Starter 

A bit of regression today. Terrible left to right crosswind (headwind at times) at the range, so ball flight would have been sketchy, at best, but film clearly indicates that I was OTT. No face on footage because I put my camera away after my tripod blew over.

 

 

 

I was consciously feeling pp #5 with two goals in mind: keeping my right elbow more in front of me, and getting more pitch elbow. I think I did alright on the former, epic fail on the latter.

 

Looks like I didn't flare my right foot as much, so as a consequence, my hip turn was not as deep. I have to stay more on top of the changes I am making or I'll have more days like this.

 

I also don't think I rotate my arms enough going back. I noticed in Mike's Dufner Drill video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlqmh6U-DRw) that his right hand is palm up in front of him in the "holding the tray" position. I deconstructed my backswing into the same right arm in front of me position and my right hand is at a 45° angle from his hand, in a position I am calling the "dumping the tray all over my left foot" position. I think more rotation will help keep me from crossing the line at the top, among other things.

 

 

 

Mike was right about my takeaway: it must have just been the camera angle. Thanks, Mike.

 

 

 

How do I get rid of this? Should I feel like I'm throwing my arms away from me? Or am holding on to pp #4 too long?

 

Takeaways: Pay attention to my setup. Rotate my forearms (slightly) more on the backswing. Swing down with my left arm (release PA #4) earlier.

post #15 of 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post
 

 

I was consciously feeling pp #5 with two goals in mind: keeping my right elbow more in front of me, and getting more pitch elbow. I think I did alright on the former, epic fail on the latter.

 

 

 

I actually this A4, if the goal is to get the right elbow a little more down and in front of the shirt seam, then you've made improvements.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post
 

A bit of regression today. Terrible left to right crosswind (headwind at times) at the range, so ball flight would have been sketchy, at best, but film clearly indicates that I was OTT. No face on footage because I put my camera away after my tripod blew over.

 

 

 

I was consciously feeling pp #5 with two goals in mind: keeping my right elbow more in front of me, and getting more pitch elbow. I think I did alright on the former, epic fail on the latter.

 

 

I also don't think I rotate my arms enough going back. I noticed in Mike's Dufner Drill video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlqmh6U-DRw) that his right hand is palm up in front of him in the "holding the tray" position. I deconstructed my backswing into the same right arm in front of me position and my right hand is at a 45° angle from his hand, in a position I am calling the "dumping the tray all over my left foot" position. I think more rotation will help keep me from crossing the line at the top, among other things.

 

Yeah just keep that same "pitch" feel on the downswing so the shaft can shallow more.  The right arm pitches and the right elbow will feel lower than the left at impact.  Make sure not to "pull" on the way down and get the right arm too narrow, more on that here.  Will also help with that last pic you posted.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/66573/how-to-effectively-create-lag-on-the-downswing

post #16 of 264
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

I actually this A4, if the goal is to get the right elbow a little more down and in front of the shirt seam, then you've made improvements.

 

Sorry, I think I failed to articulate properly. I like the new A4, too. I did manage to get the right elbow more in front of me, which was what I was going for. Where I failed  was to retain that pitch elbow feeling into the downswing, which was what I meant when I posted the second picture.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

Yeah just keep that same "pitch" feel on the downswing so the shaft can shallow more.  The right arm pitches and the right elbow will feel lower than the left at impact.  Make sure not to "pull" on the way down and get the right arm too narrow, more on that here.  Will also help with that last pic you posted.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/66573/how-to-effectively-create-lag-on-the-downswing

 

It's definitely something I continuously work on; just hasn't bore fruit yet. I'm sure it will click one day.

 

I'm working on the theory now that I need to side bend more on my backswing. I noticed that my shoulders come way off the wall on the FO view. If I remember correctly, I think the issue is not enough side bend. I made the comparison to Grant Waite here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/54697/downswing-sequencing and you can see clearly that he stays "on the wall." I just feel like I'm missing one or two pieces and it'll all come together.

post #17 of 264
Thread Starter 

I played a round today and did pretty well by my standards. I had more than a few "why can't I do that all the time" shots, so I'm definitely making some progress. I wanted to document the swing I used today, so here is the video:

 

 

 

I was incorporating a few different feels, here:

 

First, I felt like I was leaning towards the target on the backswing. I could swear my head was moving forward as I swung back, but it's clearly not the case. I think I could still use more right side extension, though.

 

Second, I felt like I was starting my takeaway with my left hand as opposed to my right. I wanted to rotate my hands more without too much wrist action. I didn't like the left hand feel so I'm going back to the right hand feel. I don't think it made any difference, anyway.

 

Finally, I wanted to shorten my backswing, and I managed to do that:

I felt like the top of my backswing was at A3, basically swinging just until my arms were parallel. The shorter backswing led to some tempo issues, so I'll have to work on that. Also looks like I forgot to squeeze pp #5 here.

 

Still need to work on the downswing. I just can't quite incorporate the proper move. Left arm stays too connected and my shoulder goes up too quickly:

Still have to work on that right elbow unfolding action. Lower body action isn't crazy ahead of my upper body though (still too far ahead), so that's a definite improvement. Impact is looking better, too:

 

Edit: Just wanted to add that my good shots today went "straight." It was hard to tell, but I'm guessing it was the slightest of push-fades. My misses were still right, so that's what I'm going with. Also, my divots were really short and shallow, like 3" long. Is that AoA related?

post #18 of 264
Thread Starter 

I was playing around with my grip just now, and apparently my hands are far enough apart that I can take the interlocking fingers apart and put them both around the club in the ten finger grip. So, essentially, I'm "faking" the interlock grip. I also have the club too much in the fingers of my left hand. This is probably why I have my right hand down so low, as my left hand is too perpendicular to the grip, making it uncomfortable to get the hands closer. Basically, the pressure from my bottom hand is directly on top of the joint in my left thumb instead of at the base of it.

 

I'm going to grip the club a bit more in the palm with my left hand so that I can get the right hand closer. I'm trying it out now, and I can already feel that my hands are more in sync with each other and there isn't so much of that delayed float loading feeling. I think this will help with my wrist action and improper lag action.

 

Now that I think about it, I think this was the first thing the pro showed me when I went to my very first lesson. Apparently, it never stuck.

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