Thoughts on "Loading up" or Doing a Early Back Weight Shift.

LeanMachine · June 21, 2015

I was watching this video: Moe Norman Fundamental Debunked

where the guy is saying that Moe Norman put the club head far behind the ball so that he could do an early weight shift in his swing.

Last time I played I was really slicing my driver. I had always been setting up with the ball an inch away from the driver face.

I use Moe Norman's super strong trail hand grip, but I never understood why he set up with the club head 12 inches behind the ball because in his videos he would just say, "Oh it was just something I've always done since I was younger". Well after I watched this video it made me think maybe the club head moved back does have to do with an early weight shift.

So for a round of nine holes I did that. I had my normal setup, ball a little inside front heel, club shaft straight out no forward shaffling. Then I shift what feels like 90% of my weight (well, it feels like that at least) onto my back foot, and I try to move my whole body back arms and everything without moving, only moving my legs. In the position my club head is like 5 or 6 inches behind the ball. Then I try to take a controlled backswing with a little wrist hinge, and then pull the club head down through the ball and right at the target while moving laterally towards the target at impact.

It was working for me. I was able to control my drive much more. I like Moe's "less moving parts" theory, and i like it. Is there really any advantage to doing the back weight shift as you do your backswing? And yet, all the tour players do it that way. lol. I know a lot of people with the "rotary swing" philosophy would say that it's a twist and that lateral movement in the worst thing you could possibly do! The lateral movement towards the target definitely adds distance imo. Not only that, but it helps you finish pointing at the target which was another one of Moe's key theories. Anyway, has anyone else tried hitting like this with driver or other clubs?

**Vinsk** · June 21, 2015

Moe actually said in one of his talks while hitting balls he places his club that far because that's one less part of the swing where he can mess up. He said " people always fussin over the first part of the swing...I've eliminated 12" from it entirely...and there you go..pure as the driven snow." When I'm slicing my drives, I'll do my "look like a fool" set up where I stand quite far from the ball with arms looking like Moe's... But I'll actually put my ball about 2 ball widths past the outside of my lead foot. I can blast some huge drives doing this....but I feel silly unfortunately.

***iacas*** · June 21, 2015

Moe's swing, when he was younger and playing more and so on, was far more "traditional" than what most think of as the "Moe Norman swing."

His clubhead is right behind the ball, his grip is completely normal, his left heel comes off the ground, etc.

He was convinced to switch to the palmy grip later in life and change a few other little things because he bought into the Natural Golf stuff, who promised to make Moe money by selling stuff (instruction, clubs, etc.) if he'd endorse it.

I have a few random thoughts on Moe Norman's swing, its use by average golfers, etc.:

Just as they say "you wouldn't teach Jim Furyk's swing to anyone, but it works for him" I think it applies to Moe.
I bet most Moe advocates don't realize how much his swing changed LATER in life, and how long his swing looked more like the above video.
I've never met seen a sub-5.0 Moe Norman golfer. I am not sure I've even heard of one and seen his swing to verify that his feel was remotely real.
Moe, as I said before, had all five keys. So it's certainly within the realms of "good golfer" stuff.
Golf is hard. I don't think there are any shortcuts. If swinging what someone thinks is like Moe and it gets them to break 90 and they're content with that, cool. But I don't know that it'll be too easy to move on from there. It may put in an artificially low ceiling on how good they can get (at least until they unlearn a few things).
Feel ain't real. It almost always applies and people who feel like they're swinging a certain way rarely are.

LeanMachine · June 21, 2015

@iacas - What is that supposed to prove? Wasn't moe like 20 years old when he played in the masters? He wasn't the best ball striker alive when he was at that age. By your logic it would be a good idea to study Tiger Woods swing from when he was in college. Lol. Everyone's body changes over time, and so their swing will slightly too.

Also, he is using the palmy grip in that video. Look at his trail hand. His swing is really not that different from old Moe. He is just more flexible and athletic here - maybe just a slightly excessive backswing.

**Lihu** · June 21, 2015

@iacas - What is that supposed to prove? Wasn't moe like 20 years old when he played in the masters? He wasn't the best ball striker alive when he was at that age. By your logic it would be a good idea to study Tiger Woods swing from when he was in college. Lol. Everyone's body changes over time, and so their swing will slightly too.

Also, he is using the palmy grip in that video. Look at his trail hand. His swing is really not that different from old Moe. He is just more flexible and athletic here - maybe just a slightly excessive backswing.

"never seen a sub-5" seems to indicate that he's never seen anyone hit decent drives with this swing?

I do know people who state that their swing is a "Moe Norman" swing, and they don't hit that far or straight.

**Vinsk** · June 21, 2015

@iacas - What is that supposed to prove? Wasn't moe like 20 years old when he played in the masters? He wasn't the best ball striker alive when he was at that age. By your logic it would be a good idea to study Tiger Woods swing from when he was in college. Lol. Everyone's body changes over time, and so their swing will slightly too. Also, he is using the palmy grip in that video. Look at his trail hand. His swing is really not that different from old Moe. He is just more flexible and athletic here - maybe just a slightly excessive backswing.

Iacas wasn't attempting to "prove" anything. He simply stated his opinion as an accomplished golf professional and instructor. The question of this thread is why more people don't try the Moe Norman swing. If anything it is you and your fellow desciples of this swing who have something to prove. Just as Iacas, Dave and Mike have provided loads of data "proving" the 5 keys (which Moe had in his swing). The only thing your natural golf has proven is that a unique man with an obsessive practice routine was able to hit the ball very well. I believe his latest post is a pretty good opinion as to why more people don't adopt Moe's swing. Convince me otherwise, I'm open to your insight as long as you provide some data other than how well it worked for Moe.

***iacas*** · June 21, 2015

@iacas - What is that supposed to prove? Wasn't moe like 20 years old when he played in the masters? He wasn't the best ball striker alive when he was at that age. By your logic it would be a good idea to study Tiger Woods swing from when he was in college. Lol. Everyone's body changes over time, and so their swing will slightly too.

To the bold, really? C'mon, man… have a little respect.

Moe's swing in his heyday when he was playing really good golf was very different than what we collectively believe is a "Moe Norman Swing" these days. It was very different than the "Natural Golf" version of his swing.

Moe made many changes to his swing later in life because he was convinced he'd make some money from Natural Golf. Like the grip he used later in life, which was not present earlier when he was playing really well.

I have a few Canadian friends, instructors I've trained, and others who knew Moe and knew him for a long time, and what I've said here is a blend of what they've all told me, what I've read from other accounts, and so on.

I have no dog in this fight. As I said, if it works for you, cool. I think it may put a ceiling on your improvement, but if you're content with anything up to or below that ceiling, cool. And I could be wrong about the ceiling too, obviously, it's just an opinion, albeit one I like to think is somewhat educated.

To the specific topic, I'm not sure what you mean by a "back" weight shift. "Back" usually refers to the trail side, away from the target, or occasionally toward the golfer's posterior.

I would recommend a read through this:

**mvmac** · June 21, 2015

@iacas - What is that supposed to prove? Wasn't moe like 20 years old when he played in the masters? He wasn't the best ball striker alive when he was at that age.

You're missing the point. Look for the commonalities of the best players, learn from that, don't try to copy Moe's grip/swing because he hit the ball well. Hogan, Nicklaus, Woods are also guys that hit the ball extremely well.

Erik also explained the Natural Golf/money aspect of it.

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