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Finger Down the Shaft Putting

iacas

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25 minutes ago, Mr Golf Addict said:

For putting i have both thumbs straight down the middle of the grip but have my right index finger pointing out towards the bottom of the grip which personally enables me to control my distance better.

I was tempted to post "I doubt it," but I have this blog to use, so I'll use it for a quick discussion of this.

I've taught a few thousand people to putt. I've never seen someone with their finger down the shaft who I would consider a "good" putter. More often - far, far more often - those with their finger down the shaft have distance control issues. The pressure they apply with that finger leads to added loft and wrist flipping, while many good putting strokes have de-lofted putters (4° turned down to 1°) and lead wrists that are slightly more in flexion than they were at setup.

I understand what people think they're feeling - the pressure of the shaft/grip being applied to that finger - but again I've got SAM data and visual data (recorded) that leads me to these types of statements.

I'm not super picky about putting grips. I putt with a pretty standard/classic reverse double overlap. My daughter is a single overlap kinda gal. I've taught claw grippers, crosshanders, etc. I could put the finger down the shaft (at least for awhile), and remain a good putter… but part of the reason I might be a good putter is that I don't put the finger down the shaft, and I've learned to control the putter swing by having a better wrist action than the one that the finger down the shaft encourages.

Again, I've never seen a good putter who can actually control distance well with the finger down the shaft.

Take it for what it's worth.

P.S. If you try to putt without the finger down the shaft for awhile, don't judge the results immediately. Give it some time. And read this:

P.P.S. Just because I've never seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It only means I've never seen it…



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56 minutes ago, rest22 said:

I believe that good putters has it by nature given to them not obtained by practice or any sort of rituals.

I strongly disagree.

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2 hours ago, rest22 said:

I experimented on any type of handedness and nothing  seems to consistently works. Up to now still not finding it due to a lot of stuff to consider. One day putting is very good then the next day it disappear. I believe that good putters has it by nature given to them not obtained by practice or any sort of rituals. Enjoy the game without questioning where game will take you.

 

How often do you practice putting? What drills do you do? How often do you play?

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Dustin Johnson states he spends 1/3 of his practice time on putting. When watching him play it shows. I see people on the practice green and they leave in 10 minutes. Then they will pound the driver for hours. My putting grip is just a regular overlapping grip with thumbs down the face of the grip. For 2017 I averaged 1.7 putts per round. I hope to do better this year. 

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8 hours ago, parman said:

Dustin Johnson states he spends 1/3 of his practice time on putting.

Where did he say this? Because… he doesn't.

As for the rest… 10 minutes is often plenty of time. That's more time than I spend practicing my putting in a month. 65/20/15

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9 hours ago, parman said:

Dustin Johnson states he spends 1/3 of his practice time on putting.

I doubt it.

I would be curious if DJ even knows how long he spends practicing putting even when asked.

9 hours ago, parman said:

When watching him play it shows. I see people on the practice green and they leave in 10 minutes.

Sounds about right.

I tend to spend 10-15 minutes before a round practicing speed control. My putting mechanics are pretty good. I might spend 45-60 minutes once a month or every other month practicing putting.

I will spend 5-6x that amount in a month on my long game.

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15 hours ago, parman said:

Dustin Johnson states he spends 1/3 of his practice time on putting. When watching him play it shows. I see people on the practice green and they leave in 10 minutes. Then they will pound the driver for hours. My putting grip is just a regular overlapping grip with thumbs down the face of the grip. For 2017 I averaged 1.7 putts per round. I hope to do better this year. 

 

6 hours ago, iacas said:

Where did he say this? Because… he doesn't.

As for the rest… 10 minutes is often plenty of time. That's more time than I spend practicing my putting in a month. 65/20/15

Here is a link to Dustin talking about his practice schedule....nothing about 1/3 of his time putting. He does focus a lot on his short game....maybe more than the average person needs to since they don’t hit it like DJ naturally. 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/practice-like-world-no-1-dustin-johnson/

Oh and I noticed Golf Digest incorrectly quotes DJ. They make it seem like he spends 80 percent of his time hitting wedges, by if you read the article that’s actually not what he says. I believe he is saying he spends 80% if his time with his wedges practicing distance control to four primary distances. 

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When I was learning Aimpoint, I sent a significant amount of time putting.    During the last year, I only spend enough time before a round to get comfortable with the green speeds and the slope, usually about 10 minutes.

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I am sure Dustin Johnson has talked about his practice more than once. I'm so sorry I was not aware you know everything and could never be wrong. Typical golf forum trash talk from the clueless. 

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I've got a collection of all the worst but it's working for me.  Lessons someday.....

huge grip, the entire grip in my left hand with the right just gently over the left, BOTH forefingers down the shaft

other than the right forefinger, pretty much my entire evolution has progressively removed my right hand from the equation - I'm twitchy, my hands shake naturally all my life, so each changed has improved my comfort with hitting my lines, distance a far lower priority as it's way down on the pareto of what needs to be worked on

It would take a big commit to go left hand low, but that's likely the next thing

for now, I'm liking my results - so the main focus has been my approach game...

putting's wierd, it seems to be so much more custom/individual vs all the other stuff

Edited by rehmwa

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42 minutes ago, parman said:

I am sure Dustin Johnson has talked about his practice more than once. I'm so sorry I was not aware you know everything and could never be wrong. Typical golf forum trash talk from the clueless. 

Typical comment from you.

Nobody said it was the only article in which Dustin commented on his putting. I asked you where you saw this, and rather than find it, and actually back up something you've said for once, you come back with a crap attitude.

Furthermore, I'm not clueless. I've watched Dustin Johnson practice, and I've talked with Dustin Johnson about his practice.

The things you allege are actually true of you: you drop in, make a brief comment without any fact to back it up, then get pissy when your information is questioned.

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I find all of this talk very interesting.

someone stated effectively "putters either have it or they don't,,,, practice won't change that much".

*If that is true - why in the hell is anyone practicing putting? That would imply they should be washing their clubs instead.

Second ...... when it comes to which hand dominates the stroke more, I'd go to one person ....Tiger Woods .... as good a putter as golf has ever seen.  Yes - that statement acknowledges there have been other masterful putters throughout history (one of which was NOT Ben Crenshaw- his just looked good).

The reason I have surmised from years of working with and observing other players and practicing on my own that players struggle with what their right hand does or doesn't do during the stroke is ........ that too many were told to let the left hand control things more ...... so they try to have their right hand be more passive and then instinct and natural dexterity kicks in under pressure and BOOM right hand ruins their stroke.   ** If you or any golfer would left their dominant hand play a more vital role in their stroke their control in every facet would be more natural and consistent.  

Telling me that "that's not right" or it didn't work that way for you ..... doesn't change my opinion ....

I coach kids and every - yes every single one who has given it a go at letting their right hand help guide the stroke (or left 4 lefties) more has improved and dramatically in many instances.

Grip ------

PALMS FACING ....the rest is up to the individual provided they have consistent control of the putter head.

my 2.5cents.

tiger.jpg.a210d4b013a0418788f54bcfe381e85e.jpg

Edited by badams69

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11 hours ago, badams69 said:

Second ...... when it comes to which hand dominates the stroke more, I'd go to one person ....Tiger Woods .... as good a putter as golf has ever seen.

I don't know that Tiger is in the top ten PGA Tour putters of all time.

Tiger averaged 14.4th in the Putts Gained stat for nine years.

Yeah, nine… that's without counting the year he averaged 91st. Average that in and it's 22.1st.

So he's not even averaging in the top ten on the PGA Tour for the ten-year period, let alone top ten ever on the PGA Tour.

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26 minutes ago, iacas said:

I don't know that Tiger is in the top ten PGA Tour putters of all time.

Tiger averaged 14.4th in the Putts Gained stat for nine years.

Yeah, nine… that's without counting the year he averaged 91st. Average that in and it's 22.1st.

So he's not even averaging in the top ten on the PGA Tour for the ten-year period, let alone top ten ever on the PGA Tour.

Smart to counter with stats ..... with that said I just don't put much value in that .

I've watched and played a ton of golf.  Putting stats are wholly irrelevant in my opinion when it comes to measuring who is and isn't a good putter.  Golf is competition and not a fantasy game for those playing.

I coach golf and couldn't despise anything more than kids always talking about their number of putts.

Not all putts are created equal. 

Usually the leaders in stats are guys making putts when it matters none whatsoever and putting under those conditions is simply not the same.

Unfortunately discussing putting is not as objective as anyone would like.

Nicklaus and Woods made putts when others simply could not.  That is the mark of a great putter, in my opinion.

I'll leave it at this.  I doubt if you had your net worth on the line (obviously far-fetched) that whoever is ahead of Woods on that list is someone you'd pick ahead of him to drain a putt for you to keep your money.

Edited by badams69

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9 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Smart to counter with stats ..... with that said I just don't put much value in that .

I've watched and played a ton of golf.  Putting stats are wholly irrelevant in my opinion when it comes to measuring who is and isn't a good putter.  Golf is competition and not a fantasy game for those playing.

I coach golf and couldn't despise anything more than kids always talking about their number of putts.

Not all putts are created equal. 

Dude, I cited "putts gained." This isn't a "number of putts" type of statistic. It's a pretty good measure of how good you are at putting.

Your counter to "putts gained" is, what, your memory of how well you think Tiger Woods putted? Tiger and Jack won with their ballstriking. Their putting helped, but there were years Tiger Woods had enough strokes gained with his approach shots alone that he'd have been a top-5 player that year if he was average with the rest of his game.

I'm not sure you understand what "strokes gained putting" measures. It's not a putt count.

11 minutes ago, badams69 said:

I doubt if you had your net worth on the line (obviously far-fetched) that whoever is ahead of Woods on that list is someone you'd pick ahead of him to drain a putt for you to keep your money.

I'd pick myself, actually.

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Any putting "stat" is void of objectivity.  

I appreciate your attempt but I'll stick with two guys who won not because they hit the ball the best, but rather because they made the most putts among guys who were putting for something important.

Baseball is an example - often the W.A.R. standouts are not the MVP guys.

Not all putts are equal is my point.

Sorry to hear you lost all your money!

😮

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5 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Any putting "stat" is void of objectivity.

I don't think you understand how statistics work.

5 minutes ago, badams69 said:

I appreciate your attempt but I'll stick with two guys who won not because they hit the ball the best, but rather because they made the most putts among guys who were putting for something important.

Nicklaus and Tiger won because they hit the ball much better than their competition.

Get with the times, man. We understand how people score well in golf better than we ever have. Don't be a "Drive for show, putt for dough" dinosaur.


But anyway, this isn't really on topic. There are other better topics where you can peddle your outdated idea of how important putting is, or how good Tiger Woods was at putting, or whatever…

Here's a good one:


BTW, welcome to TST. We happily encourage discussion, but you've gotta have a thick enough skin, and you can't come with "but i think that…" or "in my experience…" for most things. We like facts. We like evidence. We like things you can prove. If you don't like "strokes gained putting," tell us why… after proving that you even understand it." We know a thing or two here… and love to discuss and learn. We hope you do, too.

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Evidence ?   ...... evidence .......... ok ---- I mentioned only two guys who just happen to hold thee most and second most majors ever.  That's all.

Putting/putting the ball in the hole IS the game at the pro level.

I knew you'd say they hit it better.  I'd bet the stats don't show THAT at all. 

Stats on GIR and proximity and fairways hit .... those are objective.  At least off the tee - everything is same for all players.  Not the case when everyones putt is different and the perceived value of said putt is nowhere near the same.

My opinion is very important to me - LOL 

and fortunately to anyone who golfs and knows me.🤓

and THANKS, I think.

Edited by badams69

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🤦🏼‍♂️

Please don't venture too far on this site. You're too set in your ways, and unwilling to learn anything new. Keep saying stuff like this.

10 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Putting/putting the ball in the hole IS the game at the pro level.

You're a dying breed, fortunately, my man. Enjoy the time you have left.

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Learn?  Did you never learn that getting the ball in the hole is the game ?

Reason guys don't stay on tour is putting on all but rare occasions.

Why would I learn that some stats are supposedly a substitute for the game.

Guys have good weeks and bad weeks.  It is all about winning.

What is it I need to learn again???

Why would I want to "learn" something that has no actual value except that people who don't understand golf find it interesting.  The stats you mentioned are weekly stats when it comes to having any concrete value.  When taken over time their value is only in how a player could possibly use them - however a player worth their salt already knows most anything a stat will show.  They know if they are hitting it well, putting it well, not getting up and down when they should and most everything else. They normally don't need the stats.  Stats are for fans and just to busy ourselves with technology.

Kinda like myth that calories cause people to get fat. ......why?  because scientists wanted to use a new invention --- the calorimeter.  Nation has gotten fatter and fatter ever since.

Learn?  from that ...... I do and have.

Edited by badams69

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11 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Reason guys don't stay on tour is putting on all but rare occasions.

[credible citation needed]

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3 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Learn?  Did you never learn that getting the ball in the hole is the game ?

And the way to get the ball in the hole the fastest is though ballstriking. Putting is the least important part of the game (of the four categories: driving, approach shots, short game, putting).

3 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Reason guys don't stay on tour is putting on all but rare occasions.

Uhm, no. That's not at all correct.

3 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Why would I learn that some stats are supposedly a substitute for the game.

Huh? You're not even making sense at this point. Nobody's said that "stats" are a "substitute for the game". I'm not even sure what that means.

3 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Guys have good weeks and bad weeks.  It is all about winning.

And…?

3 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Why would I want to "learn" something that has no actual value except that people who don't understand golf find it interesting.

Who are these people who "don't understand golf"?

3 minutes ago, badams69 said:

The stats you mentioned are weekly stats when it comes to having any concrete value.  When taken over time their value is only in how a player could possibly use them - however a player worth their salt already knows most anything a stat will show.

I'll tell you a true story.

A few years ago Sean Foley asked Justin Rose what he wanted to work on in the off-season. Justin said "I want to work on my wedge game, from 120 yards and in." Sean said "okay" and "I'll see you in a week." A week goes by, and Sean does some research. He finds that Justin Rose is the best player on the PGA Tour from 120 yards and in.

People don't always know what the stats show. That's why virtually every top player in the game is paying a statistician these days, and coaches who understand advanced statistics are making themselves more valuable.

3 minutes ago, badams69 said:

They normally don't need the stats.  Stats are for fans and just to busy ourselves with technology.

🤦🏼‍♂️

3 minutes ago, badams69 said:

Kinda like myth that calories cause people to get fat. ......why?  because scientists wanted to use a new invention --- the calorimeter.  Nation has gotten fatter and fatter ever since.

Huh?

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7 hours ago, badams69 said:

Kinda like myth that calories cause people to get fat. ......why?  because scientists wanted to use a new invention --- the calorimeter.  Nation has gotten fatter and fatter ever since.

That is not what a calorimeter was invented for. A calorie is the amount of energy it takes to heat 1 gram (1 CC) of water, 1 degree Celsius. It was invented to help Thermodynamic studies, not nutrition. 

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Interesting topic for me this.  I have been putting with my right index finger down the grip for a few months now.  I'd say I'm making more putts 6 feet and under but my distance control has suffered.

I don't want to overthink it for fear of getting 'yippy' and all 'in my head' when putting but I'm getting the sense that the finger could be the cause of my distance control.

Why is that?  I've noticed that extending the finger tightens up the muscles in my forearm and wonder if this is affecting feel?  Thanks.

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