Lessons are not an automatic path to lower scores. And while there are some lousy instructors - and I know this from first-hand experience - a failure to improve is not necessarily the fault of the instructor.

And why wouldn't this profession have it's share of poor or dishonest instructors? Some of us are so desperate to improve that we're willing to throw money at the easy fix instead of putting in the thoughtful and disciplined work necessary to get better. Especially when we first start out. As a local teaching pro described it, "it's like taking candy from a baby".

Obviously, I'm not talking about the majority of those who takes up the game. But when I first started, I thought all I would have to do to really improve is take lessons from a PGA pro and work hard at it. Well, I was half right.

On March 2, 2016 at 10:21 PM, JonMA1 said:

Lessons are not an automatic path to lower scores. And while there are some lousy instructors - and I know this from first-hand experience - a failure to improve is not necessarily the fault of the instructor.

And why wouldn't this profession have it's share of poor or dishonest instructors? Some of us are so desperate to improve that we're willing to throw money at the easy fix instead of putting in the thoughtful and disciplined work necessary to get better. Especially when we first start out. As a local teaching pro described it, "it's like taking candy from a baby".

Obviously, I'm not talking about the majority of those who takes up the game. But when I first started, I thought all I would have to do to really improve is take lessons from a PGA pro and work hard at it. Well, I was half right.

 

Watching several music teacher come to our house over the years, I am convinced that the majority of the responsibility for improvement lies with the student. But it is certainly true that good instructors make it much easier to learn. I

I'm lucky- a friend referred me to a well respected fitting guy who referred me to a pro he works with. The pro is a hands on guy-both my wife and I took lessons from him. 

He is one of those people who works on basics and builds on a starting point. Gives you homework that addresses what he is changing.

We went from not breaking 100 to both breaking 90 last year.

The other side of that are some of the yahoos who work in the same facility. Listening to them speak to students while I just hit is shocking. They just tell them what not to do. And if you are new, you have no idea of what instruction should be.

On 2/27/2016 at 9:07 PM, newtogolf said:

I agree, as I have been documenting in my blog, I went through five instructors before I finally found one who I felt was knowledgeable and cared enough to help me improve.  I was and am determined to become a single digit handicap golfer and fortunate enough to have the funds to pursue that goal despite all the wasted money spent on bad instructors.  I have a few friends and family members who were so frustrated from bad instruction they either gave up trying to improve or gave up the sport all together.  

I've become friends with my current instructor and have helped him market his business.  We spend a lot of time talking about the golf industry and how poor the golf instruction within the industry is.  It hurts his business because he often hears from prospective customers that they aren't interested in taking lessons because of poor experiences they had in the past with lousy instructors.    

Bad instructors hurt the good instructors and the golf industry overall.  

Like your Friends and or Family , I left the game also for that exact reason....

There are a lot of bad instructors in the world in general, but there are even more bad students. Most students go into golf lessons thinking they are one step away from greatness, and that a minor tweak will fix all of their problems. I know this because I was one of them. A good teacher is honest and straightforward with their students. I think a lot of teachers fear hurting someone's feelings.

3 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

There are a lot of bad instructors in the world in general, but there are even more bad students. Most students go into golf lessons thinking they are one step away from greatness, and that a minor tweak will fix all of their problems. I know this because I was one of them. A good teacher is honest and straightforward with their students. I think a lot of teachers fear hurting someone's feelings.

More likely it hurts thier pocketbook to be honest with a student that has no ability and wont improve...I have yet to see any Instructor turn away business by being honest ....its thier paycheck after all...

Ive found if an instructor doesn't inspect your grip, alignment and posture right off the bat- then you should probably walk away from that instructor. Those are detail things a professional shouldn't miss. The couple good ones i know build their entire teaching around fundemental things. 

51 minutes ago, Hiway1tele said:

More likely it hurts thier pocketbook to be honest with a student that has no ability and wont improve...I have yet to see any Instructor turn away business by being honest ....its thier paycheck after all...

The only student like that is one that is not willing to listen and follow instructions. 

3 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

The only student like that is one that is not willing to listen and follow instructions. 

Sorry I disagree with you totally...I listened and practiced many hours...it didnt work for me...Not evryone has ability to swing a golf club correctly...

Just now, Hiway1tele said:

Sorry I disagree with you totally...I listened and practiced many hours...it didnt work for me...Not evryone has ability to swing a golf club correctly...

Perhaps you had a bad teacher... Not everyone has the ability to play on tour, but I believe that anyone, certain physical handicaps aside, can have a functional golf swing. Some people will pick things up quicker than others. You have to understand that it is not easy, but it IS doable.

2 hours ago, CarlSpackler said:

Perhaps you had a bad teacher... Not everyone has the ability to play on tour, but I believe that anyone, certain physical handicaps aside, can have a functional golf swing. Some people will pick things up quicker than others. You have to understand that it is not easy, but it IS doable.

I never believed it was easy...which is why I practiced each day..and took a lesson at least once a week when possible...you can believe what you like, because it works for you doesnt mean it works for all of us...if it did, we wouldnt be posting on the breaking 100 thread...

I would like to append to my initial comment that students who have a preconceived notion that they cannot learn the material, like my wife with math, are also bad students.

23 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

I would like to append to my initial comment that students who have a preconceived notion that they cannot learn the material, like my wife with math, are also bad students.

Then I guess in your mind..after trying to get better, and not being able to do so, is pre-concieved ...if I had believed in beginning I'd never get better, I wouldnt have spent teh money or time...I did infact beleive if I had a good instructor I could at least learn to have a basic repeatable swing....unfortunately, it didnt work for me...but thanks for letting me know I am a lousy student, now I wont have to spend any more instruction money...I owe you one..

2 hours ago, Hiway1tele said:

I never believed it was easy...which is why I practiced each day..and took a lesson at least once a week when possible...you can believe what you like, because it works for you doesnt mean it works for all of us...if it did, we wouldnt be posting on the breaking 100 thread...

It took me 3 years and 3 different instructors to finally find an instructor that could teach me how to swing a golf club properly.  PGA certified doesn't mean they know how to teach someone to golf.  

38 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

It took me 3 years and 3 different instructors to finally find an instructor that could teach me how to swing a golf club properly.  PGA certified doesn't mean they know how to teach someone to golf.  

I agree 100% with you..I am living proof..:)

The road to succes is not the same for everyone. Some need different approach then others. A good pro determines the way his students learn and adapts his lessons, drills. The way he explains why and how. For instance if you tell me technical things, I go blank. I don't learn that way. Give me feel, give me visuals and I will learn faster.

An other thing is, don't try to change too many things at once. If a pro tries to change grip, stance, swing because you are doing it al wrong, run! Try to find someone who tries to understand you and your swing and teaches you to get better by small steps.

I am no pro, but thats the way that helped me get better. 

13 hours ago, newtogolf said:

It took me 3 years and 3 different instructors to finally find an instructor that could teach me how to swing a golf club properly.  PGA certified doesn't mean they know how to teach someone to golf.  

12 hours ago, Hiway1tele said:

I agree 100% with you..I am living proof..:)

But you see that it is possible where before you said

19 hours ago, Hiway1tele said:

Sorry I disagree with you totally...I listened and practiced many hours...it didnt work for me...Not evryone has ability to swing a golf club correctly...

Please don't take my comments personally. I am just pointing out that it takes perseverance and dedication. If you keep telling yourself that you are incapable of swinging a club correctly, you will never get anywhere. I'm telling you that you can but just need to find the right instructor.

On 9/20/2016 at 8:12 AM, CarlSpackler said:

Please don't take my comments personally. I am just pointing out that it takes perseverance and dedication. If you keep telling yourself that you are incapable of swinging a club correctly, you will never get anywhere. I'm telling you that you can but just need to find the right instructor.

There is some truth to this but it isn't absolutely as simple as a positive attitude or a good instructor. 

Took lessons in December/January from someone I believe is an excellent instructor. The initial priority piece he saw was right on the money. But after that, I just had a difficult time understanding what was being taught. 

Spent much of this year trying to learn how to practice properly, working slowly on the things I thought were important/correct and working up to full speed. I developed an indoor swing from off the mat and into the net that may have gotten me around the golf course. I'm not talking about a mastery of all the keys, maybe less than "1's" in each of the five (scale of 1-5).

There are a few problems with this. First, the 5 keys are not all there is to a decent golf swing. Secondly, hitting off a mat and into a net means nothing if you cannot carry that swing outdoors. And finally, it's easier for some of us to regress back to bad habits and have less of an awareness of what's going on than it is others.

As far as dedication and perseverance, I'm not talking about giving this a couple of months and giving up...try several years. While some are practicing 5 minutes daily and improving, I practice on average an hour each day with one step forward, two steps back results (admittedly poor practice, but I'm working on that as well).

As @Hiway1tele noted, there are some who have a substantially more difficult time with this game than others. I'm not saying we "can't" improve. Only that for whatever reasons, it takes more time and the ceiling for improvement much lower.

So while a good instructor and perseverance will certainly help, it might be minimal. It all comes down to how much money we're willing to spend and how much of a ROI we are ok with.

5 hours ago, iacas said:

We've never said there is.

Correct. Nobody ever told me the 5 keys were all that was needed for good swing. I was referring to my own misconceptions.

5 hours ago, iacas said:

What do you think is missing, and what would you add to the list of "what you need" to have a decent golf swing?

If you asking what I think should be added to the list of commonalities, I've read enough of your posts and publications to know why and how you came up with these five and that other characteristics vary between the best players in the world.

If you're asking what else is needed for a good swing, mostly it's what's needed to accomplish the five simultaneously. Certainly rhythm, timing, sequencing, balance, an awareness of what our bodies are doing and what the club head is doing (feel vs real). Correct and consistent application of effort and pressure at the right time (by many different parts of the body). Flexibility, coordination, developing the ability to minimize variations from swing to swing. Mostly, understanding what each of our physical limitations are and how to adjust properly with those limits (as opposed to an old guy like me trying to emulate McElroy's swing). Last, but most importantly, learning and developing proper practice routines.

I'm not sure what you're asking, but I'm pretty sure you already know the answer. 

5 hours ago, iacas said:

I don't think it boils down to that. For many, how much natural talent and ability they have matters quite a bit as well.

I agree that the vast majority of the population (with average natural talent) would benefit substantially from lessons by a good instructor. I'm suggesting that amount varies and some of us are on the lower end. Those of us on the lower end of the curve perhaps need to be realistic about how much lessons will help. It's either worth the money or it's not... personal preference. I will likely take more lessons in the future if my budget allows as minimal improvement is still desirable. But in order for me to really improve, it's going to take a lot more than knowledge. 

I want to make sure everyone understands that I'm not intentionally being negative about instruction. This site and the internet are full of stories of those who initially struggled to move the needle only to hook up with a good instructor and eventually develop a very good game. I believe that's more the rule than the exception.