My Swing (Tryin)

[Tryin]

I've been Playing Golf for: About 20 years
My current handicap index or average score is: approx. 12
My typical ball flight is: pretty straight, can play fade/draw, prefer fade
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: fat, resulting in weak distance. 

Joined this site a couple weeks ago and have enjoyed reading all of the great content, primarily the instructional material.  I've been playing for about 20 years.  Played a lot for fist 8 then pretty much 3-4 times a year due to family, work, building my house.  I used to shoot mid 70's consistently, I took about three years off and didn't play at all when I built my house.  This year I've joined my company league, we get together and play nine holes after work on Mondays.  I usually shoot in low-mid 80's.  Started out the year with 39 and 37 and then all over the place with a high of 46.  This course we play is killing me, it is all side hill, down hill, up hill, whatever, it's on a hill!  I'm talking fairways can be 15 degree or more slope, very difficult most anywhere on the course. 

I have a feeling that I don't use my lower body enough, trying to work on that, not sure that the video's I've included show it as much.  I think once I get out on the course I get more conservative, mainly due to the slope,  and try to use my upper body more than I should.  I usually do strike the ball pretty well but when I'm not it's fat and weak, I pretty much have to tell myself on every shot to hit in front of the damn ball!  Anyway, looking forward to seeing what you guys have to say about my swing.  This is in my yard, so please ignore my old golf shoes/ clothes, I use them when I mow the grass and then usually just grab a club and hit 20 balls or so.

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Videos: 

 

 

[Adam C]

I can see from your swings why you have the two issues you described. First, your plane is very flat coming into the ball. On flat fairways you will be fine but on hills or out of rough, this can cause a lot of issues coming into the ball.

The fat issue is from the casting motion you have in your down swing where the clubhead has passed your hands before impact. This is a recipe for fat and or thin shots. It's very difficult to time that up and make center face impact.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Adam C said:

I can see from your swings why you have the two issues you described. First, your plane is very flat coming into the ball. On flat fairways you will be fine but on hills or out of rough, this can cause a lot of issues coming into the ball.

The fat issue is from the casting motion you have in your down swing where the clubhead has passed your hands before impact. This is a recipe for fat and or thin shots. It's very difficult to time that up and make center face impact.

Do you have any proposed solutions, or just "here's what you're doing wrong"? 😄 

[Adam C]

55 minutes ago, iacas said:

Do you have any proposed solutions, or just "here's what you're doing wrong"? 😄 

As far as the shallow angle, I would use something simple like 2 tees. Steepening a shallow swing can be tricky b/c it can turn into over the top real quick. I would put one tee in the ground about 4 inches behind the ball and about 2 inches inside (that being towards you. I would mirror the other tee on the other side of the ball 4 inches in front and 2 inches inside. Then really work on both staying clear of the one tee on the back swing (hopefully get it a bit more outside and upright), and clear both tees on the downswing again trying to be more upright but not coming over the top and hitting the second tee in front. Start with pitching swings until you're consistent, then half, then 3/4 etc.

The casting is another difficult fix. Not sure what iacas thinks of this idea but I might suggest cheating a little and just strengthening the left hand grip to a solid 2 knuckle view. It makes it harder to cast with a stronger grip. It's not the ideal solution but I think you have to tackle these issues separately b/c they aren't simple fixes. So work on the swing plane first, with a short term fix on the casting, then circle back to the casting. Heck the stronger grip could be a permanent fix in some cases but some golfers just don't like the feel.

[Tryin]

Thanks for looking.  I noticed the same think in the video's.  I think you are correct that the flat swing plane and casting are both causing the fat shots.  I can get away with it in the yard because it is flat.  I don't think I can make my grip much stronger, I'm already a good two knuckles and left wrist is starting to cup (reverse of flat wrist) at setup.  I've tried to incorporate some forward lean into my setup position to eliminate that position.  That in itself has been somewhat of a struggle to get used to.  I have always tried to use my body/shoulders to lift the club up with very little grip pressure and loose wrist, this actually caused the club head to lag behind my hands in the back swing and then at the top of back swing really allowed the wrist to "set" and then I would take off from there.  I think the biggest issue with this is it's all timing, do it correct and get great compression and good shot, do it wrong and I'm casting and hitting fat.   Incorporating the forward lean at address forces me to not allow the club head to lag behind, feeling like I'm having to use more of my arms/hands to pick up the club in the back swing.  I don't like it, but I can't argue with the results, it does help prevent the casting.

It seems that I'm going to have to do more picking up the club with the arms/hands to reduce the shallow angle, I like your idea with the tee's, how high should the be out of the ground?  I'm thinking about 2"?

My plan is to use any ideas and get to playing the best I can to get me through the season, get a hitting area setup in my basement, and then start using evolver this winter.  I wish I could afford a skytrack!!  I would start now, but I just don't have the time to dedicate to it, it took me a week just to get this thread going...

My 20 year swing is made up entirely of compensations, I've never had or trusted any instruction. I've played even par, had a hole in one, and shot mid 90's with what feels like the same swing!  I trust the info I've seen so far on this site.

I hit 20 or so balls before dark last night, really, really nice shots.

[Talldog]

If you slow the second video down, you can see that at impact he shaft is vertical and your hands are in the center of your body. Your hands should be over your left hip pocket, and your shaft should have a forward lean.

Two swing thoughts that might help:

1) Imagine that when you impact the ball, you are going to drag the club forward along the ground.

2) Imagine there is a bench in front of you, and you are trying to hit the ball under the bench.

Either would require you to get your hands way out in front of the ball, and give you a chance to feel what it is like to have some forward lean at impact.

[Adam C]

1 hour ago, Tryin said:

Thanks for looking.  I noticed the same think in the video's.  I think you are correct that the flat swing plane and casting are both causing the fat shots.  I can get away with it in the yard because it is flat.  I don't think I can make my grip much stronger, I'm already a good two knuckles and left wrist is starting to cup (reverse of flat wrist) at setup.  I've tried to incorporate some forward lean into my setup position to eliminate that position.  That in itself has been somewhat of a struggle to get used to.  I have always tried to use my body/shoulders to lift the club up with very little grip pressure and loose wrist, this actually caused the club head to lag behind my hands in the back swing and then at the top of back swing really allowed the wrist to "set" and then I would take off from there.  I think the biggest issue with this is it's all timing, do it correct and get great compression and good shot, do it wrong and I'm casting and hitting fat.   Incorporating the forward lean at address forces me to not allow the club head to lag behind, feeling like I'm having to use more of my arms/hands to pick up the club in the back swing.  I don't like it, but I can't argue with the results, it does help prevent the casting.

It seems that I'm going to have to do more picking up the club with the arms/hands to reduce the shallow angle, I like your idea with the tee's, how high should the be out of the ground?  I'm thinking about 2"?

My plan is to use any ideas and get to playing the best I can to get me through the season, get a hitting area setup in my basement, and then start using evolver this winter.  I wish I could afford a skytrack!!  I would start now, but I just don't have the time to dedicate to it, it took me a week just to get this thread going...

My 20 year swing is made up entirely of compensations, I've never had or trusted any instruction. I've played even par, had a hole in one, and shot mid 90's with what feels like the same swing!  I trust the info I've seen so far on this site.

I hit 20 or so balls before dark last night, really, really nice shots.

For tee height you can go two different ways. If you can do it visually, they can be low and just see the club stay outside them. If you do better with direct feedback, then put them at an inch so you can actually make contact with them. 

[Tryin]

1 hour ago, Talldog said:

If you slow the second video down, you can see that at impact he shaft is vertical and your hands are in the center of your body. Your hands should be over your left hip pocket, and your shaft should have a forward lean.

Two swing thoughts that might help:

1) Imagine that when you impact the ball, you are going to drag the club forward along the ground.

2) Imagine there is a bench in front of you, and you are trying to hit the ball under the bench.

Either would require you to get your hands way out in front of the ball, and give you a chance to feel what it is like to have some forward lean at impact.

I like what you describe in #1!  This is something I have been working on since I made these videos, I saw the casting.

Thanks!

36 minutes ago, Adam C said:

For tee height you can go two different ways. If you can do it visually, they can be low and just see the club stay outside them. If you do better with direct feedback, then put them at an inch so you can actually make contact with them. 

I'll give this a try tonight if I get a chance, Thanks!

[Tryin]

Tried to do some work on the swing this weekend.  This seems to be about as far as I can get my hands in front to help eliminate the casting at this point.  If I go much past this point, I could plant a garden, they would kick me off the golf course!  I made what felt like pretty major swing changes to try and steepen the plane, video doesn't look much different.  I'm hitting long high draws, some pull draws, so I'm sticking with it for now.  Supposed to play 9 tonight after work so will see how it works out.  Looks like I need more wrist set/ lag. 

 

 

[Adam C]

Well done on the casting part. Don't see any cast and even better, you have some forward shaft lean at impact. It's definitely still very flat in the plane, but I would just keep working on being consistent with the shaft lean until you're not really even thinking about it, then double back and work on getting more upright.

[billchao]

@Tryin please embed your videos.

https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos/

[Tryin]

Well got to play 18 tonight, shot 39-39-78.  Had a great time with the partners I was playing with.  We were on fire with the putter tonight, everybody was making 15-20 footers, I made several 12-20 footers to save par and made a couple 10-12 footers for birdie.  My driving was exceptional, short game pretty darn good, irons miserable.  I don't get it, I was smashing 6-7 irons last night with a high penetrating draw, but 5-7 iron contact was very disappointing tonight, no draws, push right, and waek.  Have a lot of work left to do.  I'm either over swinging with those clubs, or just not making proper contact, or both.  Wedges-8 iron pretty decent.  This course has limited opportunity's for "normal lie" shots, but I just wasn't there.  Still had a awesome time! 

11 hours ago, billchao said:

@Tryin please embed your videos.

https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos/

Sorry about that, still getting the hang of this.  I need that forward shaft lean you have in your profile pic!  I just don't see how you guys are getting your hands that forward.  I really think my right "dominant" arm is trying to take over on the downswing.

[billchao]

11 hours ago, Tryin said:

Sorry about that, still getting the hang of this.

No worries.

11 hours ago, Tryin said:

I need that forward shaft lean you have in your profile pic!  I just don't see how you guys are getting your hands that forward.  I really think my right "dominant" arm is trying to take over on the downswing.

It's not about one side being dominant over the other, it's a product of other things going on in the swing. But to be honest with you, I have always fought a tendency to have too much negative shaft lean rather than the other way around.

[Tryin]

Well nothing great to report as of lately, I've played rather poorly last couple weeks, shot a 43 and followed up with 44 this week.  Driving has been pretty good, still having issues with 6 iron and under.  Have had a lot of birdie chances that I didn't convert and chipping and putting has killed me.  I've gotten into the habit of getting on the green in regulation but in really bad places on the green resulting in way to many three puts.  I've got a nagging right front shoulder injury that I've had for about three years bugging me but not really affecting my golf swing much, knees feel great so that is always a plus.  To much work going on around the farm to get any practice in at all, hope to get back at it soon!

[iacas]

Take the grip out of the left palm. That’ll help.

[Tryin]

This is one of the things I though I was doing correctly, guess I'm going to have to dig up the "grip" thread, I'm sure there is one around here somewhere!

Thanks!

 

[PerfectStriking]

1 hour ago, Tryin said:

I've got a nagging right front shoulder injury that I've had for about three years bugging me but not really affecting my golf swing much

I think nearly every part of my body is injured even both my thumbs, how does one injure both thumbs, but the good news is they are light injuries everywhere almost perfectly balanced 🙂 I take heart from the list of all the injuries I once saw to Mick Doohan a local legend who lives in my city was world 500cc motorcycle champion, the list was of all the broken bones nearly 100 breaks. Mick has a mass of nuts, bolts and steel holding his brittle bones together, and one time was an hour away from having his leg amputated if the break didn't stop hemorrhaging internally. Now while I'm not recommending getting injured or playing injured, Mick's injuries put mine into some perspective. I just try to work on more muscle strengthening, posture, and stretching and adjusting my swing for more use of muscles than joints at impact and I am also working on convincing myself to practice with a smoother slower swing that is maybe 1 or even 2 clubs down on distance in practice rounds - I'm hoping this will all help.

[Tryin]

Been playing some pretty decent golf lately.  Shot 81 in our annual tournament which doesn't sound too great but I really only hit one bad shot the entire round and it cost me with a double.  Shot 39 in our league play last night.  We haven't had rain in what seems like weeks and the course is dried up to the point I'm out driving it, taking AW-9 iron in to most greens.  That's not helping my mid iron play at all.  When I have to step up and take a 5-6 iron off the tee on a par three I struggle.  My miss is still hitting behind the ball, and it's pretty obvious.  It's gotten to the point I don't even look at the ball after setup, I pick a spot of grass about an inch in front of the ball and hit that spot, this actually has worked well for me last month or so.

Revisited the grip thread after iacas's comments, that did seem to help, grip is now in a stronger position than it used to be.

Hopefully things will slow down around the farm soon and I can get some more videos up soon.