Girl Competes Against Boys in PIAA Districts/Regionals/States

[iacas]

Within the past few years, we've had topics of discussion surrounding the idea and practice of girls playing in boys tournaments in high school golf.

To recap:

In this topic, a 14-year-old 8th grader won the boys state championship in Delaware competing from 85% of the distance. Delaware at the time didn't have a separate tournament for girls as there were apparently not many girls at all playing. They noted that they have hope to have enough girls to some day have a separate girls tournament. The girls competed on the "team" as well, and the team won too.

In this instance, boys play in the fall, and girls play in the spring. The high school for which this girl played doesn't have a girls team, so she's eligible to play for the boys team, and still compete in the regional and state events in the spring for the girls. She played from shorter tees than the boys, and her team did not win/advance.

And again, she could compete in the spring against other girls from the same tees.

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In PIAA, apparently, we have two sisters in the WPIAL (a Pittsburgh area league) that compete for Carmichaels. The school doesn't have a girls golf team, and there's apparently a PIAA rule that says that only one girl from each school can compete in the girls championship (districts, regionals, and then states).

Remmey competed for the girls as a freshman and sophomore. Her year-older sister Delaney competed on the boys side those two years but didn't get out of her district (the WPIAL). This year, they put Delaney (a senior this year) through the girls so she'd have a better chance of going to States, and Remmey (junior) went through the boys track.

These are individual tournaments, not the team events, which are run separately. I believe they both play on the boys team for Carmichaels.

Anyway, Remmey (in the boys track) shot 72 playing from 85% of the distance that the boys played to finish second. The top 22 of 44 players advanced. Her sister, Delaney, shot 90 to miss the playoff to move on to states for AA girls by two.

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Here's the first story:

Sisters Remmey and Delaney Lohr to compete in WPIAL golf finals — for girls and boys

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Carmichaels junior Remmey Lohr placed third in the WPIAL girls golf finals last year, but this year she’s competing on the boys side.

Here's the second:

Carmichaels golfer Remmey Lohr qualifies for PIAA boys championships

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Lohr used an eagle to place second at the PIAA western regional qualifier.

My stance on this stuff remains the same.

• If a girl CHOOSES to compete against boys (when there's a girl's team available, or a girls track), when she has an alternative, she should be allowed to compete so long as it's on actually equal terms. That means the same tees. This basically treats the boys division as "open."
• I'm also fine if the rules simply say "boys" and don't allow girls to compete at all for individual titles.
• For teams, I think the 85% is a good compromise, because some teams literally might not even have enough players to compete if they don't allow girls to play for them, and that would hurt more people than allowing girls to play. Still, these girls should compete through the girls individual track, if available, not the boys. Unless, again, they made a choice to play for the boys when an alternative (girls) was available.

Should a girl playing quarterback for the high school team only have to advance the ball 8.5 yards for a first down? Should a girl playing on a boys basketball team get a second, lower basket because girls aren't generally as tall as boys? Should a girls high school pitcher that chooses to play baseball get to pitch from, oh, 50 feet instead?

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P.S. It's not said above, but the best fix here is to adjust the "one girl" rule.

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Lohr qualified for the PIAA regional by placing third at the WPIAL championships. She is playing in the boys individual tournaments because Carmichaels doesn’t have a girls team and PIAA and WPIAL rules state that only one female can participate in girls individual championships from a school without a girls team.

Adjust that, and this isn't an issue. Why penalize girls who don't have a girls team by only allowing one of them to qualify, when four or five girls from a high school with a program could all qualify?

[Bonvivant]

Pretty interesting, but agree that the tee difference is not just, even if it might be more fair. Also, limiting to one girl isn't fair to me, providing they qualify. Are the qualifications based on handicap? If so, then everything should be kosher if they "make the cut" for the amount required to qualify, because their cap should be adjusted for the tees they have been playing. That means that in theory a 10 handicap girl should play just as good as a 10 handicap boy off of the same tees. No reason to have them play off of forward tees if they are equally qualified. The forward tees create a problem where a 10 handicap girl has an advantage over a 8 handicap boy based on course/slope ratings, which I don't think is right.

[iacas]

Handicaps aren’t involved in high school golf.

[Bonvivant]

Just now, iacas said:

Handicaps aren’t involved in high school golf.

So how does someone qualify? Is it just score based? This would make complications for what tees they should play off of. Or best player(s) on the team? Sorry that I am unfamiliar with HS golf. I will be watching this thread for a while before commenting more.

[mcanadiens]

11 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

So how does someone qualify? Is it just score based?

Coach's decision. 

Guys try out. Coach picks his players. Coach sends players out for a given match.

It's straight scoring from there. 

[iacas]

12 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

So how does someone qualify? Is it just score based?

For the advancement in the "post-season"? Yes. Natalie (my daughter) had to win her District tournament (36 holes, Thursday and Saturday) to move out of District X to regionals. She had to be in the top five out of ten players at regionals to move on to States.

WPIAL has their own system. I think you have to shoot a qualifying score to move out of WPIAL (basically their "district") to regionals, and then you're in the same regional tournament.

So this girl is choosing to play against boys, but gets to play from only 85% of the distance of the boys.

[DrvFrShow]

When Annika tried to play on the PGA tour, did she get to play from the blue tees? No, she did not. She had to play from the same tees as everyone else.

If a girl wants to compete against the boys she needs to play from the same tees as the boys.

I've seen a high school girl at the local driving range smack my driver about 220 carry. If this girl was playing against boys from the forward tees she would have had an unfair advantage. She went on to study nursing in college.

That's all I have to say on this subject.

 

[Buckeyebowman]

1 hour ago, DrvFrShow said:

When Annika tried to play on the PGA tour, did she get to play from the blue tees? No, she did not. She had to play from the same tees as everyone else.

If a girl wants to compete against the boys she needs to play from the same tees as the boys.

I've seen a high school girl at the local driving range smack my driver about 220 carry. If this girl was playing against boys from the forward tees she would have had an unfair advantage. She went on to study nursing in college.

That's all I have to say on this subject.

 

NO THEY DO NOT! At least not in high school. At that stage of development, the guys have a great advantage. Besides, this is just making the best of a difficult situation. I don't know where you live, but there are school systems here in Ohio where it's getting difficult to field a complete football or baseball team, let alone a golf team! 

There are a frightening number of schools looking at 7 on 7, or 8 on 8 football! Where will the golfers come from?

I know a lady who lives near a local course that we really like, She played on her boy's HS golf team way back in the day! Why? Because there was no other alternative. She played there, or she did not!

[Vinsk]

9 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

2 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

 

NO THEY DO NOT! At least not in high school. At that stage of development, the guys have a great advantage

That’s just the way it is. Guys don’t compete in the balance beam and girls don’t do the rings. If a girl chooses to compete with boys then compete equally. 

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

NO THEY DO NOT! At least not in high school. At that stage of development, the guys have a great advantage. Besides, this is just making the best of a difficult situation. I don't know where you live, but there are school systems here in Ohio where it's getting difficult to field a complete football or baseball team, let alone a golf team! 

There are a frightening number of schools looking at 7 on 7, or 8 on 8 football! Where will the golfers come from?

I know a lady who lives near a local course that we really like, She played on her boy's HS golf team way back in the day! Why? Because there was no other alternative. She played there, or she did not!

You once again missed the point.