My Swing (Lugowskins)

[Lugowskins]

I've been Playing Golf for: Roughly 3 years (lost a year and a half due to injury)
My current handicap index or average score is: mid-high 80s 
My typical ball flight is: straight, slight draw with irons
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: Toe-ey shots with irons are my main miss and an occasional thin but i feel my ball striking with my irons is the least of my worries right now. Once I get into a space to do it I will put up video of my driver swing which is an absolute disaster and has been completely broken for 2 years. I tore my achilles tendon a few years ago and after a long recovery I came back to the game and attempted to make some swing changes. This led to complete loss of ability to hit a driver. I mean that I literally could not make contact, I topped everything, I have had the yips for the past 2 seasons where 90+% of my drives were topped about 30 yards. I also broke both my 6 iron and my 7 iron shafts (one on a tree limb the other just decided to break mid swing one day) this essentially left me with an 8 iron as my longest club as with my old set of Taylormade Burner 2s I never got comfortable with the low irons. This year I purchased some Titleist AP2 irons and am already striking them better than I have ever hit irons before so I feel like I just need to get the driver figured out and I think I'll be on the right track. So far this year on the range and doing some rounds on a simulator I've been able to avoid the topping of the ball but contact is still very poor and I really have no idea where it is going. That being said the fear of topping it is still very prevalent every time I step up to the ball with the 1 wood in my hand. 

 

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I got the angles as best as I could I hope they're acceptable. 1 slo-mo swing from the front and the back then a few full speed swings from each. Yes I am in my bedroom hitting balled up pieces of paper lol have to have some ingenuity when you live in Michigan, don't have a heated garage and the closest driving range is a half hour away! 

Videos: 

if someone can tell me whether this embedded properly I used the embedding link but when I look at the post it just shows the copied text not the video?

 

[ncates00]

Here are the faults that my untrained eyes see:

- Your hands/arms move away from the body in the takeaway/backswing and the club sucks inside.

- You do a good job lowering and turning in the backswing, but you do it really weirdly--you really dip your left should way down and that compromises you a lot because all you can do from there is turn your shoulder very steeply in the downswing and JUMP to shallow the club out.  

- You also "tackle" through the ball; meaning, you lower that front shoulder, and then you move your upper body forward and bust through the imaginary line that would run up from the ball to your left chest.  This forces you to stall, jump, and flip.  Very difficult to get long clubs airborne and deliver a solid blow down and through the ball.

Edited January 28, 2020 by ncates00

[Lugowskins]

6 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

Here are the faults that my untrained eyes see:

- Your hands/arms move away from the body in the takeaway/backswing and the club sucks inside.

- You do a good job lowering and turning in the backswing, but you do it really weirdly--you really dip your left should way down and that compromises you a lot because all you can do from there is turn your shoulder very steeply in the downswing and JUMP to shallow the club out.  

- You also get "tackle" through the ball; meaning, you lower that front shoulder, and then you move your upper body forward and bust through the imaginary line that would run up from the ball to your left chest.  This forces you to stall, jump, and flip.  Very difficult to get long clubs airborne and deliver a solid blow down and through the ball.

Thanks for the quick reply! Your first point confuses me a bit I can see the takeaway issue but what I feel and what I thought I saw was a more coming over the top motion and I was planning on working on keeping the club head MORE inside on the downswing? Expanding on that or a visual example would be great. 

I knew I had a big turn I honestly thought I had even tamed it a bit recently but my swing still looks super long. You think shortening my backswing might help keep me from dipping so low? I definitely see what you mean and it's drastically worse than what I thought I was actually doing. 

To your last point should I still be shooting for that movement through the ball but just not being as pronounced? 

 

[ncates00]

40 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

Your first point confuses me a bit I can see the takeaway issue but what I feel and what I thought I saw was a more coming over the top motion and I was planning on working on keeping the club head MORE inside on the downswing? Expanding on that or a visual example would be great. 

Your hands and arms move away from the body as you take it back; that is a disconnected takeaway.  I would try to move my hands back straight or more to the inside--maybe feel like you're going to run your right hand into your right quad as you take it back.  That is the feeling.  However, the trick is to keep the club head outside of your hands.  To do this, as you take your hands "in," feel the club stay "out" and hinge "up."  It will feel like Furyk/Moore/Wolff, but you won't be any where near it.  In reality, if you do it correctly, you'll look like Charley Hoffman and most guys who plane the club up the elbow plane.  What you do is take the club back too flat.  You gotta let that club hinge up.

40 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

I knew I had a big turn I honestly thought I had even tamed it a bit recently but my swing still looks super long.

It's not that you have a big turn; it's that you do it incorrectly.  You let your front shoulder drop instead of keeping your level.  Your shoulders should turn 90* to your spine.  You turn too vertically and dip the left shoulder, losing your side tilt.  Look at slo-mo video of new Tiger or 2000s Tiger--he moves off the ball a tiny bit and turns his shoulders behind the ball, but he doesn't dip the front shoulder or lose his side tilt away from the ball.  You lean toward the target when you dip the shoulder; that causes you to jump because if you don't you'll sling the club over the top with that overly steep dipped shoulder.

 

40 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

You think shortening my backswing might help keep me from dipping so low? I

Maybe.  I wouldn't worry about that; I'd learn how to pivot correctly because even if you shorten your swing, it's no guarantee that you won't fall back into that bad habit.  You're trying to cheat your way out of it by merely shortening your backswing--fix the root problem by turning your shoulders 90* to your spine and keep your side tilt; don't dive bomb that front shoulder.

 

40 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

I definitely see what you mean and it's drastically worse than what I thought I was actually doing. 

Video reveals a multitude of sins.  lol.

 

40 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

To your last point should I still be shooting for that movement through the ball but just not being as pronounced? 

No.  Your upper body should not be doing that at all.  Your lower body, however, should squat, slide, and turn a little.  The upper body just follows the lower body's lead.  Think about a home run hitter; they plant that front foot and the chain begins.  It'll feel weird but you should rig up a device or stand in the doorframe and take some swings, feeling your head stay back in the downswing while you unleash through the ball.  Once you get that down you'll see a higher ball flight and hit the ball better. 

 

You've got a lot of things to fix here, my friend, sorry to say.  You have a lot of problems I had back in the day, it's funny actually.  I don't envy you, but with diligent practice on the correct things, you can get through it and fix it.  In sum here's what I would work on:

- Takeaway: hands "in", club "out" and hinged "up" so you can get the club planing back on the elbow plane.

- Backswing: turn your shoulders 90* to your spine--do not dive bomb your left shoulder.  Take practice swings with a noodle next to your head or do them in a door frame.

- Downswing: kinda the same as the backswing.  Keep the upper body back and let the lower body lead the way.

- If you get the body movements correct, you should find it easier to plane the club in the backswing, and then find it easier to match that same plane coming down.  I would use the v1 app and a tripod to video your swing.  Get that club going up the elbow plane and get it coming right back down it, and you'll pure it.  See the attachments of good ol' Charley for the elbow plane.  You don't get anywhere near the elbow plane as you push your hands out but suck the club in!

- Lastly, you need to grab a phone tripod and set it at about hip height and shoot the camera at your hands.

Edited January 28, 2020 by ncates00

[billchao]

@Lugowskins,

https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/embed-videos/

https://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/filming_your_swing

[Lugowskins]

@ncates00 Thanks so much this was incredibly useful, definitely a lot to work on! I'll be back in a few days after a few hundred swings and to you and @billchao I've got the tripod so I'll be sure to take my time to get the angle right for my next video! Thanks guys.

[Lugowskins]

Wednesday Jan 29th a couple days and a lot of swings later I feel like there is some progress here. At least now I have an idea what I should be doing and I can really feel it in my body when I'm nowhere close to doing it. Doing a better job of just rotating around my spine (in comparison to just 2 days ago) still needs a lot of work. I'm going to a range this Saturday and playing on their simulator so I'm honestly not too excited to see the results I feel like my ball striking is going to be a mess but I know I just have to get use to this and it will be worth it in the long run. I apologize for the camera being so close on the side angle I hope aside from the depth the positioning is correct at least. 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Lugowskins

[ncates00]

24 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

Wednesday Jan 29th a couple days and a lot of swings later I feel like there is some progress here. At least now I have an idea what I should be doing and I can really feel it in my body when I'm nowhere close to doing it. Doing a better job of just rotating around my spine (in comparison to just 2 days ago) still needs a lot of work. I'm going to a range this Saturday and playing on their simulator so I'm honestly not too excited to see the results I feel like my ball striking is going to be a mess but I know I just have to get use to this and it will be worth it in the long run. I apologize for the camera being so close on the side angle I hope aside from the depth the positioning is correct at least. 

 

 

DTL view: You're getting your hands back better in the takeaway--you're not moving your arms away from your body like you did.  That's good.  However, you're still letting the club get too far sucked inside.  Get that club hinging up as you turn so you can plane the club on the elbow plane.  You want the club to go up the elbow plane and come right back down on top of it.  See the Hoffman pix above.  You're coming under it and then over top of it because you suck the club inside, get the shoulder way too steep, and steepen the downswing, and then try to jump out of it (early extension) because you're so over the top and steep.  

FO view: You still drop that front shoulder quite a lot.  That combined with not planing the club up the elbow plane is making you steepen the shaft with your first move down.  Look at your hands; they come over the top, likely because your shoulder is so steep, your hands and arms have no choice but to follow.  Additionally, you suck the club inside and you have to reroute it over the top to get some kind of functional delivery.  But at least you don't bust through the imaginary line from the ball up to your left chest as bad.  Your head and upper body needs to stay behind that line through the swing; it should only cross because the club pulls you through the ball.  

To be honest, you haven't really changed much at all here.  This will not change over night; you've got tons of bad habits (that I used to have, as previously stated) to clean out.  Good luck--it ain't fun.

Again: you need to get the hands working pretty close to what you're doing, but get the club hinging UP the elbow plane for the backswing.  Keep that left shoulder up (don't dive bomb) and stay behind that imaginary line.  Then, start the lower body chain and bring the club right back down that same elbow plane you took it back on.  I imagine like on the backswing that I'm parting the Red Sea like Moses to make way for the downswing--over the top is water, too underneath is water, right on the elbow plane is dry ground.

Maybe look into lessons.  Get a good pro.  The thing is, if you do, you gotta sell out to the coach and not try things on your own.  It's tempting to try to self-medicate, but you just make things worse.  It's better to spend the money on good instruction than to screw everything up.  You've gotta be diligent, patient, and committed to the long term goal you have.

@Lugowskins I made some edits to my text.  sorry.  hope it makes sense.

Edited January 29, 2020 by ncates00

[Lugowskins]

Just a single swing of many I took tonight recording on the V1 Golf app. Probably not my best swing but it was my last was hoping the lines would carry over when I exported I'll have to check on that next time. Still having one hell of a time trying to stop from coming over the top but I'll get there.

 

 

[Lugowskins]

Most recent swing video, actually made some changes since recording these swings improved my posture and changed my grip (thanks to the thread I read on here) and I feel it feels much more comfortable and makes it easier to hit my desired swing path but I'll work on it more and save it for the next video.

 

[Lugowskins]

Swing progress 2/19/20 had a major revelation after an atrocious range session a few days ago. I never really thought about my grip I just grabbed how I felt comfortable and went with that. Well with my efforts to flatten out my swing plane i had started pushing everything right like waaaaay right and generally with a slice as well. So I did some research and realized i had a fairly weak to neutral grip so I experimented a bit and strengthened my left hand considerably to essentially an (original) Ben Hogan style grip where I've got 3 knuckles visible and the results were pretty instantaneous. It still feels fairly uncomfortable standing over the ball but contact feels a lot more clean and powerful I know with time it will just become the new normal. I feel like my swing is getting close, still have a couple months until I can actually start playing and I plan on continuing to put in the work but I'm happy with the progress I've made in just a few weeks and I feel very confident going into the year. This video is just some down the line shots of a few irons and I posted my first driver swing of the thread. I feel increasingly awkward with the new grip using the driver but I think it will be good for me mentally to force me to not come over the top knowing the miss with my old swing would be either a snap hook or just a massive pull. 

 

 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Lugowskins
Grammatical error

[Lugowskins]

You probably think I'm spamming at this point by I swear this is a real improvement lol only took a few different people saying it to me but I think I fixed my takeaway which made it much easier to hit my downward swing plane I love the swing I have here it's not perfect but I know I'm so close. 

 

 

[boogielicious]

12 hours ago, Lugowskins said:

You probably think I'm spamming at this point by I swear this is a real improvement lol only took a few different people saying it to me but I think I fixed my takeaway which made it much easier to hit my downward swing plane I love the swing I have here it's not perfect but I know I'm so close. 

 

 

Looking better from that camera angle, but try practicing it slower. Even your pre-shot swing should replicate the feel. Club lags behind the hands on the way up just like in the video Mike made. 

Also, get outside if you can and film it slow motion. Remember to have the camera aim down your toe line. I usually line up, then put the club down about an inch in front of my toes and line the camera up on that. A face on video in slow motion would help too.

 

[Lugowskins]

So I noticed my next point of emphasis that was making life difficult, I was not bringing my hips through early enough before and that made it really hard for me to hit the correct downward swing plane as my hands were always ahead of my hips. I feel it's better here but definitely something I need to work on. Another thing, I don't know how serious of an issue it is, but my back foot tilts on my backswing and I feel like I'm losing power due to that so I widened out my stance a bit and it's not as drastic and feels more comfortable but still need to focus on driving through that back foot and use my legs more to generate power, there is still distance to be gained. Probably cant tell from my past video but i changed my driver swing I saw a video with Rory and how he got extension on the back swing I had been just essentially using my iron swing and was leaving speed on the board doing that. I feel the combination of getting my hips through earlier and getting extension on the back swing has me swinging faster I cant wait to get on the simulator this next weekend see what kind of numbers I can put up. 

 

 

[boogielicious]

56 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

So I noticed my next point of emphasis that was making life difficult, I was not bringing my hips through early enough before and that made it really hard for me to hit the correct downward swing plane as my hands were always ahead of my hips. I feel it's better here but definitely something I need to work on. Another thing, I don't know how serious of an issue it is, but my back foot tilts on my backswing and I feel like I'm losing power due to that so I widened out my stance a bit and it's not as drastic and feels more comfortable but still need to focus on driving through that back foot and use my legs more to generate power, there is still distance to be gained. Probably cant tell from my past video but i changed my driver swing I saw a video with Rory and how he got extension on the back swing I had been just essentially using my iron swing and was leaving speed on the board doing that. I feel the combination of getting my hips through earlier and getting extension on the back swing has me swinging faster I cant wait to get on the simulator this next weekend see what kind of numbers I can put up. 

 

 

 Couple of things.

1. You need to have a ball there when you show swings. It makes a difference.
2. The takeaway looks better, but try and start the backswing all in one piece without hinging your wrists. Let the hinge happen higher in the backswing. You are still coming to the inside on the backswing, which then has you coming over the top on the downswing.

Like in the video I showed you, practice the beginning of the backswing until the shaft is parallel to the ground, A2. The head should be in front of your hands and the face angled slightly down. Post videos of just that part of the backswing stopping at A2. Do that with an iron and the driver.

[ncates00]

14 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Let the hinge happen higher in the backswing.

To be clear, you're referring to "horizontal" hinge, correct?  To be fair, I don't even think about horizontal hinging.  If you're referring to "vertical" hinge, or cocking upward, I will disagree for the very reason you cited--he is too inside/flat with the takeaway.  Letting the club hinge up will get him to take the club up the elbow plane better and then come back down it.  You are correct however to note that right now he is still too underneath going back and then steepens coming down.  That's exactly why he should plane it up and plane it down.  In fact, it looks like you are doing the same kind of work in your swing--you do a pretty good job of trying to get on that elbow plane like Charley too.  It's a great move!

[Lugowskins]

1 minute ago, boogielicious said:

 Couple of things.

1. You need to have a ball there when you show swings. It makes a difference.
2. The takeaway looks better, but try and start the backswing all in one piece without hinging your wrists. Let the hinge happen higher in the backswing. You are still coming to the inside on the backswing, which then has you coming over the top on the downswing.

Like in the video I showed you, practice the beginning of the backswing until the shaft is parallel to the ground, A2. The head should be in front of your hands and the face angled slightly down. Post videos of just that part of the backswing stopping at A2. Do that with an iron and the driver.

I will when it warms up enough to where I can move to my garage but still too cold for that just yet! As of now balled up pieces of paper wrapped in tile tape is best i can do lol To your second point its a constant point of emphasis but still struggling to get it right I can get there "artificially" as in if I force myself and if feels far from natural I just feel like there is something I'm missing that is making it so hard and I think it's that I'm still not clearing my hips enough. I have been doing a lot of just slo mo swings not sure what you mean by getting the shaft parallel? I feel like that's what I'm doing like the freeze frame I have below? 

[Double Mocha Man]

5 minutes ago, Lugowskins said:

I will when it warms up enough to where I can move to my garage but still too cold for that just yet! As of now balled up pieces of paper wrapped in tile tape is best i can do lol To your second point its a constant point of emphasis but still struggling to get it right I can get there "artificially" as in if I force myself and if feels far from natural I just feel like there is something I'm missing that is making it so hard and I think it's that I'm still not clearing my hips enough. I have been doing a lot of just slo mo swings not sure what you mean by getting the shaft parallel? I feel like that's what I'm doing like the freeze frame I have below? 

Is that your man-cave or your cats' man-cave?  😀